Looks awkward right?! Well it's actually quite simple:
2) 4 Narcomoeba will come back to the battlefield as a result of the mill and flasback Dread Return by sacrificing three Narcomoebas. Target Angel of Glory's Rise to get Azami, Lady of Scrolls and Laboratory Maniac into the battlefield from your graveyard, since you are completely milled.
3) Tap one of them and win. On turn one. 40% of the time.
Take out all Undercity Informer , Balustrade Spy , Dread Return , Narcomoeba , Laboratory Maniac etc and bring in the Goblin Charbelcher , Lion's Eye Diamond , Grim Monolith , Tinder Wall and Spoils of the Vault . Since you have no land, Charbelcher does 50ish damage to your opponent while they think they've got you beat with their Rest in Peace !
SOOOO SIICCCKKKK +1!!
Beautiful. Maybe Pact of Negation ? Or is disruption not a problem?
Wonderful deck! Anyway, I think you should remove 1 Cabal Ritual to add 1 Snapcaster Mage. In this way you raise the chances of winning in turn 1, because with Angel of Glory's Rise you can reanimate it, and you can target Gitaxian Probe, that you can cast for free in the same turn, triggering Laboratory Maniac effect and winning the game.
This deck is insane. I win consistently on turn 1. +1, great job.
Wow an even better take on the 'Four Horseman' by Jeff Liu, which I'm guessing was the inspiration, that was already an amazing deck for legacy.. And this deck wont even bring a stupid judge call for no change in game state!
Nice decklist... But for turn 1, i like the famous Flash-Hulk deck!
Can someone tell me the 7 card hand you would have to draw to win turn one (are there more than 1)? Excuse my ignorance but I am not seeing it.
ummm whut. if i had this played on me IRL, I'd probably decrease the MTG players population by a couple players. +1 definately.
I really like this deck, is it possible to make this combo modern legal?
The crux for making it modern legal would be a substitute for Dread Return. Unburial Rites is the only card that seems to behave similarly, but its Flashback cost will mean trickier mana production... especially since some of the other mana generation here has to be retooled for modern. (Chrome Mox is banned, just for starters.)
For a great deal more insight and sideboarding suggestions on this deck:
Mongo The only hands you can draw and not win are if you end up getting stuck with a hand consisting of Angel of Glory's Rise, Azami, Lady of Scrolls, Balustrade Spy, Laboratory Maniac, Undercity Informer, Narcomoeba or Dread Return before generating enough mana to get out Undercity Informer or Balustrade Spy.
If you get stuck with a combo piece in your hand you can use Cabal Ritual on yourself to get it in the graveyard, but by far the easiest way is to just mulligan it away! I got the inspiration from a deck I saw on Starcity but tweaked to make it better I think. Pact of Negation is a good sideboard but I like my BFMs.... :D Thanks for the +1's! Im planning on building it soon.
Nice deck. After 30 playtests I got:
1st turn win: 10 times or 33.33%2nd turn: 3 times or 10%3rd turn: 3 times or 10%4th+ turn: 14 times or 46.67%
Obviously the 2nd and 3rd turn wins are a little more dependent on opponent plays.
The 4th turn plus games were caused by a pretty even split of drawing the combo pieces and not drawing either self mill piece. Unfortunately it seems that if you have the bad luck to draw a combo piece in each of your first 3 or 4 hands there isn't much that can be done.
An awesome ComboThough, I do have an inquiry; what do you do Leyline of the Void?
I thought it is just restricted? What is the difference?
Yes, it's Restricted, so it should work as a sub. Restricted means you can only have 1 of.
Uhmm so just to clarify Cabal Therapy is the best card in this deck LOL
If you are holding a combo piece you can sac use it on yourself to put it in the graveyard. Essentially allowing you to be able to draw a combo piece and still be in alright shape
Sorry, that wasn't very clear. If you are holding, say a Lab Man, you mill yourself putting the narcomoebas into play. Flashback cabal therapy by sac-ing a narc to make yourself discard the Lab Man. Then use dread return and win
How do you now when to mulligan for this deck? :L
Also, what do you think is the latest turn that this deck has a chance of winning?
Awesome deck! The look on my friends faces as I 1 turn them is superb! I would suggest adding in 2 more Dread Rituals, because I drew one on my first playtest and I couldn't get it into my graveyard or play it. Thanks! +1
Oh also, anything you can do to reduce the price? And add in (maybe) some Sphere of the Suns, because I sometimes get a lot of mana, but no black, so that would be handy. :P Thanks again!
Sphere of the sun would be wasted space in this deck. It's turn one win and pretty much nothing else at all.
Well, personally, there are situations that I have encountered in which I have 2 spirit guides, but no black mana. SOTS could solve that.
Oh yes, and, in answer to your question, I'd estimate about 5-7 turns is when you should either lose hope of winning. :D
Sphere of the Suns is too slow. I feel it would be a waste to use a Dark Ritual to play SOTS. As for the mulligan question, it just takes some time to figure out what is a good hand and what is not. It also depends on what you are playing against. Generally though, having a combo piece is a bad sign and having two combo pieces means you just chuck it out. Big news though! I found a cool way to sideboard with this deck which I will be posting asap, so keep your eyes open
Actually, I was not suggesting to play Sphere of the Suns with Dark Ritual , but instead use it as something to play Dark Ritual with, because I sometimes find myself with no Lotus Petal /Chrome Mox . Still just a suggestion!
:) Happy to help! More suggestions: put in two of all the cards that are game-win required, so that if you draw one you don't have to mully or discard it somehow. Really the rules for mully are:Dread Return, Angel of Glory's Rise or any other game-essential cards unless what I said above is incorporatedNo mana cards whatsoever, although this is pretty rare :PNo Balstraude Spy or Undercity Informer (This is your choice, if you deem the opponent not to be too much of a threat then don't mully)Other than these situations, I can't really think of any other times in which you would need to mully, because if you have not got these at least two of these problems in your hand, the deck should fix that in at most 3-4 turns. AT MOST. Because of the awesomeness of the deck of course.
Also, maybeboard Biovisionary because it will be an insta win with no fear, because when you Dread Return Angel of Glory's Rise it will bring it onto the battlefield, because, of course, it is a human wizard. Hope I helped! I would actually suggest removing the Lab Manic & Azami or adding them to the sideboard instead of these.
Sorry to be making too many suggestions, I hope you don't mind! MOAR INFO: Adding in more combo cards would allow you to take out the Cabal Therapy and cut a hale of a lot from the cost of the deck. I saw you just updated your sideboard, and suddenly, the deck is $300 pricier.. ? Maybe reconsider the Grim Monolith , but I really like the Goblin Charbelcher as an alt win condition!
Oh yeah, I'm not about to make that sideboard, it is just incredibly epic
Lel I keep on finding kewl things - Play Emrakul's Hatcher with Dread Return , and you have infinite colorless mana/infinite Dread Return . So many things you can do with that... IDK all the combos, but you can win in like 5 different ways. like using Biovisionary, Emrakul himself, Volcanic Geyser (using idk, something like Burning Tree Emissiary for the 2R). So many possibilities! Feel free to add some... :)
Dread Return gets exiled after you flash it back!
Haha no worries. As for those alternate win-cons I think that it would certainly be hilarious to win with biovisionary etc but once you bring back Azami and lab man then you've already won. No point in winning more! haha
Wait, question, is it possible to tap either wizard if they don't have summoning sickness?
Yes, Azami's ability isn't and activated or cost based ability, it's stating that you can draw a card at any time by tapping a wizard you control.
I have a vanity deck like this which uses two Bridge from Below s instead of Narcomoeba , as you can discard Bridge From Below and still pull the combo. And if you don't mind losing legacy legality you can throw in a couple Hermit Druid s to increase your chances of engaging the combo, and reduce the deck's dependency on black mana. You may also want to consider adding two or three Chancellor of the Tangle s.
Funny, I have nearly an identical deck. Looks a whole lot like yours. Lol! Sky Nomad: No Land Required (1st turn kill). I'm a little bummed someone else posted it on here but kuddo's for posting it first. +1 for me.
What happens if I love my opening hand.....use probe to check for a force and draw a Angel of Glory's Rise? Do I just lose the game?
Dread Return Is a sorcery, And you can't' flash back sorcerys at instant speed, because you still have the Balustrade Spy trigger on the stack, you can't flashback Dread Return . Thus milling yourself out and you lose.
Hey Marine, if its in your hand, wait to get eight cards, then you can discard it into your graveyard.
Oh yeah, this deck is beast! Way to go. I just cloned it (but with cheaper cards), and it works so well! definitely +1
Needs a second Dread Return
Without it no matter how good the hand, having Dread Return in it makes you lose.
killkong1211, Cabal Therapy is in the deck so that you can get cards out of your hand and into your graveyard. I myself prefer Putrid Imp , because you can use it more than once, but when you are putting tons of cards in your graveyard I can see why Frampypants put in Cabal Therapy instead.
Cellodude, you lose when you draw a card and you can't, not when you run out of cards.
What can seriously make this good is the fact that you have a free mulligan if you have no land in your hand. So unlimited mulligan until you get perfect hand?
/ nvm, apparently you have to still drop one card per mulligan
Have you thought of an official name for this deck? How does "All for none" or "Madman's Redemption" sound? btw Would sideboarding a Sol Ring help at all in Vintage?
You COULD replace the Cabal Therapy with a Sol Ring , one more Wild Cantor and one more Dread Return (that can still be used with a Chrome Mox ).Keeping in mind this is just trying to stay tournament legal.
Now that I think about it, if you have one of the combo cards in hand, for example Laboratory Maniac
, but no Cabal Therapy
in hand, you could mill, wait for the four Narcomoeba
to return to the field, then pay Cabal Therapy
's flashback cost by sacking one Narcomoeba
or what you milled yourself with, discard Laboratory Maniac
and leave the remaining three or four for Dread Return
's flashback and continue with the combo. Now what if that were to happen but with one or even two Narcomoeba
still in hand? Just wait for the other ones to return to the field and use what you milled yourself with as part of the flashback cost for Dread Return
, whether it's Balustrade Spy
or Undercity Informer
Have two combo cards in hand at once (EVEN A Narcomoeba MAKING THREE)?! Azami, Lady of Scrolls and Angel of Glory's Rise still in hand?! Hopeless?! Nope. If possible, play Summoner's Pact to get a Spirit guide and/or just sack a Spirit guide to play a Wild Cantor . (Should have minimum 5 creatures on field by this point, including (possible) 3 Narcomoeba .) Sack two creatures by casting two seperate Cabal Therapy flashback costs, and discard the two (or three) combo cards. Then continue with the combo. For this case specifically, if a Wild Cantor can't be played, you're out of luck, or if you've still got a Narcomoeba in hand, try messing around with remaining mana in your pool. Still damn beautiful.
TL;DR Weebles wobble but they don't fall down!
Sorry, I don't mean to spam but in the last paragraph, by sacking two combo cards I meant Azami, Lady of Scrolls and Angel of Glory's Rise so the combo can still work. I'm gonna wait for others to talk before I do again, whew. I'm constructing this deck for sure.
nvm again, it's on Star City Games: "Oops, All the Spells!"
What if Dread Return is in your starting hand or draw? You "full" your hand and discard it in the cleanup step? Isn't that "pause" dangerous?
Ops all spells... An Underworld Cerberus Build is more reliable.
I don't see how an Underworld Cerberus would work with this deck, could you elaborate?
Ah legacy, the place where crazy combos are awesome and people don't understand how they work <3
Underworld Cerberus victory frees up a card slot, which is, by itself, better. It also minimizes dead hands resulting from drawing into combo components: in a deck using the Angel as a Dread Return target, drawing Angel of Glory's Rise , Laboratory Maniac , Dread Return , or Azami is problematic, whereas a deck using the Cerberus only has to worry about drawing the Cerberus itself or drawing Dread Return. This is a considerable improvement over the Angel-based method.
Scenario: Opening hand #1: Summoner's Pact, Undercity Informer, Simian Spirit Guide, Dark Ritual, Cabal Ritual, Dread Return, Simian Spirit Guide
I keep. I exile a Simian Spirit Guide and use the mana to cast Wild Cantor . I sacrifice Wild Cantor for a black mana and use the black mana to play Dark Ritual . I use two of the mana from Dark Ritual to play Cabal Ritual . That gives me a total of four black mana. I cast Undercity Informer and use my last remaining mana to activate its ability, putting my library into my graveyard and four Narcomoeba 's onto the battlefield. I sacrifice a Narcomoeba to flashback Cabal Therapy, targeting myself and naming Dread Return , which I then discard. I also get a zombie token thanks to Bridge from Below . I sacrifice a Narcomoeba to flashback Cabal Therapy on my opponent, naming whatever card I suspect might be a problem and getting another zombie token. If I see something that it still threatening, I sacrifice a third Narcomoeba to flashback my last Cabal Therapy and get rid of it, possibly getting another zombie token if my opponent hadn't already had any cards discarded. I then sacrifice three creatures, say one Narcomoeba and two zombie tokens, to flashback Dread Return targeting Underworld Cerberus . All of my creatures in my graveyard go to my hand. I exile a Simian http://static.tappedout.net/None_medium.jpgSpirit Guide for a red mana and use it to play Wild Cantor . I exile two Elvish Spirit Guide 's for two mana, sacrifice Wild Cantor for a blue mana, and cast Laboratory Maniac . With the Maniac on the battlefield, I cycle a Street Wraith and win
|Date added||1 year|
|Last updated||6 months|
This deck is Legacy legal.
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|Top rank||#2 on 2013-03-18|