Beautiful. Maybe Pact of Negation ? Or is disruption not a problem?
February 14, 2013 6:26 p.m.
Wonderful deck! Anyway, I think you should remove 1 Cabal Ritual to add 1 Snapcaster Mage. In this way you raise the chances of winning in turn 1, because with Angel of Glory's Rise you can reanimate it, and you can target Gitaxian Probe, that you can cast for free in the same turn, triggering Laboratory Maniac effect and winning the game.
March 8, 2013 7 p.m.
March 14, 2013 5:33 p.m.
This deck is insane. I win consistently on turn 1. +1, great job.
March 14, 2013 8:57 p.m.
Wow an even better take on the 'Four Horseman' by Jeff Liu, which I'm guessing was the inspiration, that was already an amazing deck for legacy.. And this deck wont even bring a stupid judge call for no change in game state!
March 15, 2013 11:47 a.m.
Nice decklist... But for turn 1, i like the famous Flash-Hulk deck!
March 15, 2013 1:21 p.m.
March 16, 2013 2:01 a.m.
Can someone tell me the 7 card hand you would have to draw to win turn one (are there more than 1)? Excuse my ignorance but I am not seeing it.
March 16, 2013 4:09 p.m.
ummm whut. if i had this played on me IRL, I'd probably decrease the MTG players population by a couple players. +1 definately.
March 17, 2013 6:30 p.m.
I really like this deck, is it possible to make this combo modern legal?
March 17, 2013 11:31 p.m.
The crux for making it modern legal would be a substitute for Dread Return. Unburial Rites is the only card that seems to behave similarly, but its Flashback cost will mean trickier mana production... especially since some of the other mana generation here has to be retooled for modern. (Chrome Mox is banned, just for starters.)
March 18, 2013 12:27 a.m.
For a great deal more insight and sideboarding suggestions on this deck:
March 18, 2013 3:51 a.m.
Mongo The only hands you can draw and not win are if you end up getting stuck with a hand consisting of Angel of Glory's Rise, Azami, Lady of Scrolls, Balustrade Spy, Laboratory Maniac, Undercity Informer, Narcomoeba or Dread Return before generating enough mana to get out Undercity Informer or Balustrade Spy.
March 18, 2013 2:57 p.m.
March 18, 2013 3:30 p.m.
If you get stuck with a combo piece in your hand you can use Cabal Ritual on yourself to get it in the graveyard, but by far the easiest way is to just mulligan it away! I got the inspiration from a deck I saw on Starcity but tweaked to make it better I think. Pact of Negation is a good sideboard but I like my BFMs.... :D Thanks for the +1's! Im planning on building it soon.
April 5, 2013 2:39 a.m.
Nice deck. After 30 playtests I got:
1st turn win: 10 times or 33.33%2nd turn: 3 times or 10%3rd turn: 3 times or 10%4th+ turn: 14 times or 46.67%
Obviously the 2nd and 3rd turn wins are a little more dependent on opponent plays.
The 4th turn plus games were caused by a pretty even split of drawing the combo pieces and not drawing either self mill piece. Unfortunately it seems that if you have the bad luck to draw a combo piece in each of your first 3 or 4 hands there isn't much that can be done.
May 4, 2013 1:08 p.m.
An awesome ComboThough, I do have an inquiry; what do you do Leyline of the Void?
May 22, 2013 1:45 p.m.
June 17, 2013 1:37 a.m.
I thought it is just restricted? What is the difference?
June 17, 2013 4:54 a.m.
Yes, it's Restricted, so it should work as a sub. Restricted means you can only have 1 of.
June 17, 2013 11:21 a.m.
Uhmm so just to clarify Cabal Therapy is the best card in this deck LOL
January 11, 2014 6:41 p.m.
If you are holding a combo piece you can sac use it on yourself to put it in the graveyard. Essentially allowing you to be able to draw a combo piece and still be in alright shape
January 12, 2014 4:46 p.m.
Sorry, that wasn't very clear. If you are holding, say a Lab Man, you mill yourself putting the narcomoebas into play. Flashback cabal therapy by sac-ing a narc to make yourself discard the Lab Man. Then use dread return and win
January 12, 2014 4:50 p.m.
How do you now when to mulligan for this deck? :L
February 2, 2014 5:17 p.m.
Also, what do you think is the latest turn that this deck has a chance of winning?
February 2, 2014 5:38 p.m.
Awesome deck! The look on my friends faces as I 1 turn them is superb! I would suggest adding in 2 more Dread Rituals, because I drew one on my first playtest and I couldn't get it into my graveyard or play it. Thanks! +1
February 4, 2014 4:06 p.m.
Oh also, anything you can do to reduce the price? And add in (maybe) some Sphere of the Suns, because I sometimes get a lot of mana, but no black, so that would be handy. :P Thanks again!
February 4, 2014 4:09 p.m.
Sphere of the sun would be wasted space in this deck. It's turn one win and pretty much nothing else at all.
February 4, 2014 4:27 p.m.
Well, personally, there are situations that I have encountered in which I have 2 spirit guides, but no black mana. SOTS could solve that.
February 4, 2014 6:17 p.m.
Oh yes, and, in answer to your question, I'd estimate about 5-7 turns is when you should either lose hope of winning. :D
February 4, 2014 6:19 p.m.
Sphere of the Suns is too slow. I feel it would be a waste to use a Dark Ritual to play SOTS. As for the mulligan question, it just takes some time to figure out what is a good hand and what is not. It also depends on what you are playing against. Generally though, having a combo piece is a bad sign and having two combo pieces means you just chuck it out. Big news though! I found a cool way to sideboard with this deck which I will be posting asap, so keep your eyes open
February 4, 2014 7:44 p.m.
Actually, I was not suggesting to play Sphere of the Suns with Dark Ritual , but instead use it as something to play Dark Ritual with, because I sometimes find myself with no Lotus Petal /Chrome Mox . Still just a suggestion!
February 4, 2014 7:49 p.m.
February 4, 2014 8:02 p.m.
February 4, 2014 8:12 p.m.
:) Happy to help! More suggestions: put in two of all the cards that are game-win required, so that if you draw one you don't have to mully or discard it somehow. Really the rules for mully are:Dread Return, Angel of Glory's Rise or any other game-essential cards unless what I said above is incorporatedNo mana cards whatsoever, although this is pretty rare :PNo Balstraude Spy or Undercity Informer (This is your choice, if you deem the opponent not to be too much of a threat then don't mully)Other than these situations, I can't really think of any other times in which you would need to mully, because if you have not got these at least two of these problems in your hand, the deck should fix that in at most 3-4 turns. AT MOST. Because of the awesomeness of the deck of course.
February 4, 2014 8:15 p.m.
Also, maybeboard Biovisionary because it will be an insta win with no fear, because when you Dread Return Angel of Glory's Rise it will bring it onto the battlefield, because, of course, it is a human wizard. Hope I helped! I would actually suggest removing the Lab Manic & Azami or adding them to the sideboard instead of these.
February 4, 2014 8:59 p.m.
Sorry to be making too many suggestions, I hope you don't mind! MOAR INFO: Adding in more combo cards would allow you to take out the Cabal Therapy and cut a hale of a lot from the cost of the deck. I saw you just updated your sideboard, and suddenly, the deck is $300 pricier.. ? Maybe reconsider the Grim Monolith , but I really like the Goblin Charbelcher as an alt win condition!
February 4, 2014 9:09 p.m.
Oh yeah, I'm not about to make that sideboard, it is just incredibly epic
February 4, 2014 9:24 p.m.
Lel I keep on finding kewl things - Play Emrakul's Hatcher with Dread Return , and you have infinite colorless mana/infinite Dread Return . So many things you can do with that... IDK all the combos, but you can win in like 5 different ways. like using Biovisionary, Emrakul himself, Volcanic Geyser (using idk, something like Burning Tree Emissiary for the 2R). So many possibilities! Feel free to add some... :)
February 6, 2014 8:57 p.m.
Dread Return gets exiled after you flash it back!
February 9, 2014 1:52 p.m.
Haha no worries. As for those alternate win-cons I think that it would certainly be hilarious to win with biovisionary etc but once you bring back Azami and lab man then you've already won. No point in winning more! haha
February 9, 2014 8:16 p.m.
Wait, question, is it possible to tap either wizard if they don't have summoning sickness?
February 10, 2014 5:08 p.m.
Yes, Azami's ability isn't and activated or cost based ability, it's stating that you can draw a card at any time by tapping a wizard you control.
February 10, 2014 9:34 p.m.
I have a vanity deck like this which uses two Bridge from Below s instead of Narcomoeba , as you can discard Bridge From Below and still pull the combo. And if you don't mind losing legacy legality you can throw in a couple Hermit Druid s to increase your chances of engaging the combo, and reduce the deck's dependency on black mana. You may also want to consider adding two or three Chancellor of the Tangle s.
February 25, 2014 1:36 a.m.
Funny, I have nearly an identical deck. Looks a whole lot like yours. Lol! Sky Nomad: No Land Required (1st turn kill). I'm a little bummed someone else posted it on here but kuddo's for posting it first. +1 for me.
March 1, 2014 11:17 p.m.
What happens if I love my opening hand.....use probe to check for a force and draw a Angel of Glory's Rise? Do I just lose the game?
April 22, 2014 12:37 p.m.
Dread Return Is a sorcery, And you can't' flash back sorcerys at instant speed, because you still have the Balustrade Spy trigger on the stack, you can't flashback Dread Return . Thus milling yourself out and you lose.
April 27, 2014 4:54 p.m.
Hey Marine, if its in your hand, wait to get eight cards, then you can discard it into your graveyard.
Oh yeah, this deck is beast! Way to go. I just cloned it (but with cheaper cards), and it works so well! definitely +1
May 7, 2014 6:18 p.m.
May 11, 2014 4:36 a.m.
Needs a second Dread Return
Without it no matter how good the hand, having Dread Return in it makes you lose.
May 16, 2014 1:26 p.m.
killkong1211, Cabal Therapy is in the deck so that you can get cards out of your hand and into your graveyard. I myself prefer Putrid Imp , because you can use it more than once, but when you are putting tons of cards in your graveyard I can see why Frampypants put in Cabal Therapy instead.
May 25, 2014 4:55 p.m.
Cellodude, you lose when you draw a card and you can't, not when you run out of cards.
May 28, 2014 5:40 p.m.
What can seriously make this good is the fact that you have a free mulligan if you have no land in your hand. So unlimited mulligan until you get perfect hand?
July 4, 2014 5:35 p.m.
/ nvm, apparently you have to still drop one card per mulligan
July 4, 2014 5:37 p.m.
Have you thought of an official name for this deck? How does "All for none" or "Madman's Redemption" sound? btw Would sideboarding a Sol Ring help at all in Vintage?
You COULD replace the Cabal Therapy with a Sol Ring , one more Wild Cantor and one more Dread Return (that can still be used with a Chrome Mox ).Keeping in mind this is just trying to stay tournament legal.
July 5, 2014 3:21 a.m.
Now that I think about it, if you have one of the combo cards in hand, for example Laboratory Maniac
, but no Cabal Therapy
in hand, you could mill, wait for the four Narcomoeba
to return to the field, then pay Cabal Therapy
's flashback cost by sacking one Narcomoeba
or what you milled yourself with, discard Laboratory Maniac
and leave the remaining three or four for Dread Return
's flashback and continue with the combo. Now what if that were to happen but with one or even two Narcomoeba
still in hand? Just wait for the other ones to return to the field and use what you milled yourself with as part of the flashback cost for Dread Return
, whether it's Balustrade Spy
or Undercity Informer
Have two combo cards in hand at once (EVEN A Narcomoeba MAKING THREE)?! Azami, Lady of Scrolls and Angel of Glory's Rise still in hand?! Hopeless?! Nope. If possible, play Summoner's Pact to get a Spirit guide and/or just sack a Spirit guide to play a Wild Cantor . (Should have minimum 5 creatures on field by this point, including (possible) 3 Narcomoeba .) Sack two creatures by casting two seperate Cabal Therapy flashback costs, and discard the two (or three) combo cards. Then continue with the combo. For this case specifically, if a Wild Cantor can't be played, you're out of luck, or if you've still got a Narcomoeba in hand, try messing around with remaining mana in your pool. Still damn beautiful.
TL;DR Weebles wobble but they don't fall down!
July 5, 2014 4:21 a.m.
Sorry, I don't mean to spam but in the last paragraph, by sacking two combo cards I meant Azami, Lady of Scrolls and Angel of Glory's Rise so the combo can still work. I'm gonna wait for others to talk before I do again, whew. I'm constructing this deck for sure.
July 5, 2014 4:29 a.m.
nvm again, it's on Star City Games: "Oops, All the Spells!"
July 6, 2014 8:02 a.m.
What if Dread Return is in your starting hand or draw? You "full" your hand and discard it in the cleanup step? Isn't that "pause" dangerous?
August 5, 2014 6:57 p.m.
August 6, 2014 2:27 a.m.
Ops all spells... An Underworld Cerberus Build is more reliable.
August 11, 2014 7:15 p.m.
I don't see how an Underworld Cerberus would work with this deck, could you elaborate?
August 12, 2014 11:41 a.m.
Ah legacy, the place where crazy combos are awesome and people don't understand how they work <3
August 12, 2014 1:22 p.m.
Underworld Cerberus victory frees up a card slot, which is, by itself, better. It also minimizes dead hands resulting from drawing into combo components: in a deck using the Angel as a Dread Return target, drawing Angel of Glory's Rise , Laboratory Maniac , Dread Return , or Azami is problematic, whereas a deck using the Cerberus only has to worry about drawing the Cerberus itself or drawing Dread Return. This is a considerable improvement over the Angel-based method.
August 13, 2014 11:22 a.m.
Scenario: Opening hand #1: Summoner's Pact, Undercity Informer, Simian Spirit Guide, Dark Ritual, Cabal Ritual, Dread Return, Simian Spirit Guide
I keep. I exile a Simian Spirit Guide and use the mana to cast Wild Cantor . I sacrifice Wild Cantor for a black mana and use the black mana to play Dark Ritual . I use two of the mana from Dark Ritual to play Cabal Ritual . That gives me a total of four black mana. I cast Undercity Informer and use my last remaining mana to activate its ability, putting my library into my graveyard and four Narcomoeba 's onto the battlefield. I sacrifice a Narcomoeba to flashback Cabal Therapy, targeting myself and naming Dread Return , which I then discard. I also get a zombie token thanks to Bridge from Below . I sacrifice a Narcomoeba to flashback Cabal Therapy on my opponent, naming whatever card I suspect might be a problem and getting another zombie token. If I see something that it still threatening, I sacrifice a third Narcomoeba to flashback my last Cabal Therapy and get rid of it, possibly getting another zombie token if my opponent hadn't already had any cards discarded. I then sacrifice three creatures, say one Narcomoeba and two zombie tokens, to flashback Dread Return targeting Underworld Cerberus . All of my creatures in my graveyard go to my hand. I exile a Simian http://static.tappedout.net/None_medium.jpgSpirit Guide for a red mana and use it to play Wild Cantor . I exile two Elvish Spirit Guide 's for two mana, sacrifice Wild Cantor for a blue mana, and cast Laboratory Maniac . With the Maniac on the battlefield, I cycle a Street Wraith and win
August 13, 2014 11:29 a.m.
August 13, 2014 11:39 a.m.
The way the milling rule works is that if you mill until you hit a land and don't get one you lose right their. This gives you no time to play any additional cards once you use one of your mill cards. Your dead before you can do anything. Sorry to say.
August 28, 2014 1:12 a.m.
You lose once you can't "draw"
The milling effect of this deck doesn't make you draw, it makes you reveal the card, so you will be fine :)
August 28, 2014 5:56 p.m.
Noob question here, but anyways: How do you tap a Wizard on turn one? Wouldn't any card sent to battlefield from graveyard have summoning sickness until turn 2?Is it because Azami, Lady of Scrolls 's activated ability technically bypasses the "no tap rule", since it doesn't have the "tap" symbol in its wording?Or am I missing something else?
In any case, an amazing deck!
September 18, 2014 3:56 p.m.
what is the use of Spoils of the Vault ? superb deck!!!!
October 13, 2014 10:49 a.m.
October 30, 2014 5:52 p.m.
November 3, 2014 9:35 p.m.
How does Spoils of the Vault work on this deck?
November 10, 2014 8:35 a.m.
How do you use Undercity Informer's ability if you can't sac a creature.
November 21, 2014 4:22 p.m.
December 23, 2014 4:35 p.m.
-If this doesn't work you lose
-Chromatic Star would cost you an extra 2 to put on the table and activate and you would need to have it in your hand to go off. The beauty of the combo is that it dumps everything in the graveyard, then reanimate everything with Flashback effects
December 23, 2014 10:46 p.m.
I'm new to legacy (usually play modern on standar or EDH) but this look very good, and what a sideboard! +1 of course
January 27, 2015 1:33 p.m.
Hate to sya it, but it looks a lot like http://archive.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/deck/1164.
March 31, 2015 10:54 a.m.
Uh... What green creatures are you tutoring for with Summoner's Pact?
June 2, 2015 12:37 a.m.
Hey just built this deck plus sideboard to its entirety! Super excited to go play it. Took me 4 months due to crazy expensive sideboard but nothing some good ol trading couldn't handle! Love it!
June 29, 2015 10:32 p.m.
Because legacy!But also because price incresed in the past 2 years
July 16, 2015 3:10 p.m.
July 25, 2015 1:38 p.m.
Incase anyone was wondering, he stole this deck from TheManaSourse. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5khRZmkBvc
August 10, 2015 8:31 p.m.
He last updated this deck before the video was released.
August 20, 2015 11:34 p.m.
I like the deck, +1. Please checkout my deck: Turn 1 Worldspine Win.
August 25, 2015 3:53 p.m.
This is actually a list from an established legacy archetype called "oops, all spells" it and dredge are supposedly the fastest combo decks in the format, but dredge has the plus of being $500 cheaper
October 13, 2015 11:56 a.m.
Instead of Azami/glory/LabMan, the other win-cons you could run are:
November 12, 2015 10:40 p.m.
November 17, 2015 10:44 a.m.
Renaud I saw your comment and agree with you the summoning sickness rule is that the creature can't attack or tap unless it has haste, it's still tapping, Frampypants you need a human wizard with haste like Skirk Alarmist which may or may not be a human, based on most websites I have looked at people consider it human, you can look too, also this website says it is human
January 2, 2016 9:43 p.m.
January 2, 2016 9:50 p.m.
Renaud & jstieps You're not 100% wrong. If a creature has a tap symbol without haste it's tap ability cannot be used. but because Azami, Lady of Scrolls has an effect like Heritage Druid you are allowed to tap any wizard, regardless of summoning sickness. If you have any concerns with my point, please google into heritage druid first, as it is an extremely similar case. Hope I cleared things Up. :D
January 5, 2016 6:19 p.m.
Ok thanks omega_helix it made me confused why no one noticed that, but that really helps my understanding, thanks for clarification
January 5, 2016 8:57 p.m.
Well its official. Everyone here is an idiot. There is no way this deck can possibly win turn one (in the way described using Lab Maniac[not belcher])... EVER. Did it ever occur to you that the wizard you must tap to win the game will have SUMMONING SICKNESS??? Is the whole world gone mad or am I missing something???