Since this deck is budget, perhaps a Crux of Fate a good option.

@@YourGod

I was thinking about adding Crux of Fate, but to me, it seems like a kind of a bad Day of Judgment. If I were to add another boardwipe, I'd probably add Life's Finale first

Do not use Black Sun's Zenith. The -1/-1 counters erase the +1/+1 counters and Marchesa's effect cannot get back the creatures that die

@ArchangelAlchemist

... facepalm

Wow how did I not see that. I actually haven't bought this deck yet, so I haven't tested it and I didn't even think about that. Yeah Life's Finale is definitely taking its place

Heya, try some graft cards to get counters more easily. Helium Squirter is one I used to use. Cards that gain counters easily, such as Blood Tyrant, Exava, Rakdos Blood Witch, Deathbringer Thoctar, Desecration Demon. Grave Betrayal also works wonders with Marchesa because everything enters with a counter. I'm sure you know of this one, but Mikaeus, the Unhallowed, is nuts with Marchesa, basically making everything on your field unkillable (except for Marchesa as she is a human so Mikaeus does not work with her).

I just uploaded my deck recently. You can check it out here. Marchesa, the Thief of Multiplayer. Mine is more centered around taking creatures though.

@erichlol

Yeah my friend was telling me I should try out some graft creatures, so I've also been thinking about Novijen Sages, Cytoplast Manipulator, and Simic Fluxmage as ideas. But otherwise, yeah those look pretty cool! I'll look into it

actually, if Black Sun Zenith kills a creature with counters on it you WILL get it back with marchesa. (assuming it dies from it, if it doesn't die to it you don't get it back) 704.7. If a state-based action results in a permanent leaving the battlefield at the same time other state-based actions were performed, that permanents last known information is derived from the game state before any of those state-based actions were performed. Both death and removing counters are done simultaniusly and thus it looks before either happens.

@L3thalDarkness

I have no clue what you just said, but either way I don't really like Black's Sun Zenith anyway. However that DOES make Sage of Fables and Novijen Sages much better than I originally thought if that's true! Thank you for that explanation!

Earlier it was mentioned you don't get creatures that died to BSZ back. that isn't true. because the counters are removed simultaneously with dying. Sage of Fables/Novijen Sages will NOT come back. because they have 0 conters on them when they die (assuming they died to removing counters and not combat/removal) negating counters, the whole + cancels - thing is a state based action. removing counters from those creatures is not.

Oh I get it now

You might want to consider Greed as an additional way to enable dethrone, as well as Treasonous Ogre. You seem a bit light on mana/mana rocks, so the Ogre seems like a good addition.

Also, one of my personal favourites in Marchesa is Thalakos Deceiver. No one ever plays shadows anymore so it's brilliant! And Grave Betrayal is a serious must have in any Marchesa deck! ;)

Feel free to check my deck for any more ideas and insights ;)

Persistent Traitors

Commander / EDH GS10

SCORE: 4 | 76 VIEWS | IN 2 FOLDERS

+1 given! ;)

@GS10

Thalakos Deceiver sounds pretty interesting. My main problem with him is that I can only activate his ability if he's attacking, and he'd be a lot more useful if I could activate him on other people's turns. But that doesn't mean that he isn't good! I'll have to think about it

I used to run Grave Betrayal, but I took it out because every time I had it in my hand, I would tap out to cast it, and then someone would always have the clutch Krosan Grip and destroy it. Maybe

Erebos, God of the Dead does about the same thing as Greed, but it costs one more to activate, prevents your opponents from gaining life, has the possibility of becoming a creature, and is indestructible. I don't want to take Erebos out right now, and I don't think I want to have Greed right now, but I'll think about it

As for Treasonous Ogre, I rely less on Dethrone to get +1/+1 counters and more on Graft, so I don't really need to burn myself that much. My opponents usually do that for me

Thank you for commenting!

The reason I spoke about dethrone enablers is precisely my experience in needing to lower my life total. People found out really soon that if they attacked each other leaving the Marchesa deck as the deck on the throne, it's pretty much nerfed. I also run graft creatures, and Drana, as well as the new Olivia and Unspeakable Symbol so I have more ways to get counters, but it is not as reliable for me as with my general, that's why I brought it up! ;)

And yeah, I always forget that Erebos draws you cards. Greed isn't that interesting in that situation.

As for Thalakos Deceiver, it is really awesome, but if you are relying less on dethrone it might make for some very awkward situations if you can't enable him every turn.

Grave Betrayal on the other hand, I would never take out for the prospect of finding removal every time. There will be a time it sticks, and when it does, you are definitely on a very good position. I always have a Fleshbag Marauder in hand whenever someone plays a Narset, Enlightened Master or some cheeky Ezuri, Claw of Progress player waits to make it his first creature so he gets more counters! :) It's harsh for them, but part of their way to victory is in that interaction, and Grave Betrayal, even though it will eat a lot of removal, is IMO a must have card in Marchesa that you have to try to stick in there. I get your point though! And it's an enchantment, not a general that you can re-cast right away, but it is so strong that it's worth the shot.

Last One Standing , Vindictive Lich , Yahenni, Undying Partisan , Falkenrath Aristocrat , Diabolic Intent , and Sneak Attack . I'd also find room for Talisman of Indulgence and your other 2 Signets.

Legion Loyalist is also great here when you go the aggro route.

Feel free to check out my list for ideas. Upvotes on any of my decks are appreciated. Every Masochist Needs a Marchesa To Love Them

@Last_Laugh

Last One Standing and Yahenni are both interesting ideas, I’ll have to give them some more thought

Vindictive Lich, Diabolic Intent, and Sneak Attack will all probably fit in here eventually, but they’re all a little bit out of my budget range atm

Falkenrath Aristocrat doesn’t really fit into this build because it doesn’t have many humans. There’s a reason Mikaeus, the Unhallowed works so well here!

The Talismans are all ok, but this build relies more on graft and graft-like abilities to get counters and less on Marchesa’s dethrone ability, so I don’t really need to burn myself more than I already do

Legion Loyalist is pretty great, I run a playset of him in my 8-Whack deck in modern, but this deck doesn’t really care that much about attacking so I’d rather run something more productive for my aristocrat gameplan

Thank you so much for commenting, I really appreciate it!