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I know this deck is supposed to be a bane for control decks but through 10 games of playtesting with my Esper Sphinx Scry Team. . It only won 1 of 10. I know this deck is cool and strong and all (Heck I believe in this deck so much I even want to make it and bought some pieces already, +1 for it btw) but I think I'm playing it wrong or something's missing.
December 1, 2013 9:43 p.m.
Dizzyme, did you take xengos out for pyromaster?
Leatherface. I donlt know if this deck is that awesome against control. The thing is that if a player can drop a land each turn. Then you are in a lot of trouble. Because you can't destroy a land each turn. Think dizzyme's land destruction is better vs control because he splashes black for hand disruption.
December 2, 2013 5:02 a.m.
No I re modified the deck for 3 and 3, the xenegos is a staple, also yes my deck slams on control hard, I win 90% of my control matches. I haven't updated my list in a while but I don't run all the strikes and jets he does, also i don't run peak eruptions in the side. I went for a more well balanced deck so anything midrange or controls style i should beat the decks that are hard for me is red deck wins and red green devotions. Everything else is pretty much too slow to keep up.
December 2, 2013 6:03 a.m.
Not to say they will win every time I just have to be somewhat picky about my opening hand.
December 2, 2013 6:04 a.m.
December 3, 2013 7:03 a.m.
Its his removal bait, he can get around magma jet on his elf or chump block to get rid of a big creature its pretty self explanatory, the pithing needle is great for a turn 1 drop naming nikthos unless you went first then turn 2 drop, aetherling, (insert annoying activated ability here)
December 3, 2013 11:50 a.m.
But it says, unless it's a mana ability, which all of AEtherling 's abilities are ?
December 3, 2013 2:12 p.m.
@AlphaAuthority: AEtherling 's abilities are activated abilities that cost mana to activate, not mana abilities. An example of a mana ability is Elvish Mystic who's ability allows it to basically act as a land by tapping for mana.
December 3, 2013 3:04 p.m.
Think mana producing abilities. Anyone know why it doesn't read like that?
December 3, 2013 3:39 p.m.
December 3, 2013 4:01 p.m.
Pithing needle will not stop nykthos. But it will stop AEtherling .
Mana abilities are defined as ones that create mana, such as Llanowar Elves or Mountain .
605.1a An activated ability is a mana ability if it meets three criteria: it doesn't have a target, it could put mana into a player's mana pool when it resolves, and it's not a loyalty ability
December 3, 2013 5:04 p.m.
logan700, thanks mate, just the explanation I was looking for. I always thought that it meant abilities costing mana to activate.
December 3, 2013 6:17 p.m.
but Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx does produce mana. so it should cut that off aswell
December 4, 2013 1:54 a.m.
You can infact pithing needle a nykthos because the second ability is not considered a direct mana ability, its an activated ability that cost mana to produce said mana. Its kind of like when someone plays underworld connections, you can't name underworld... You have to name swamps so any ability said swamp gains is not usable. Any ability outside the realm of tap : add mana is not considered a mana ability.
December 4, 2013 2:04 a.m.
605.1b A triggered ability without a target that triggers from activating a mana ability and could put mana into a players mana pool when it resolves is a mana ability.
Nykthos 2nd ability is still considered a mana ability because of the above
December 4, 2013 3:02 a.m.
Pithing Needle is used for control decks that have solo win conditions. Its really just an answer for many plainswalkers. Or plainswalkers being their only win condition. As is some of the blue white or blue black decks that primarily run in my area. Control is always 4-6 decks of the typical top 8 decks. Locally your metta might be different. I can drop the Peak Eruption s though as they are good in this deck they don't ever really see play. As of my knowledge there is very few that consistently run Mono red.
December 4, 2013 2:56 p.m.
What made you use Chandra instead of frenzied tilling? do you have enough LD now? Or is that not as big of a focus?
December 8, 2013 1:40 p.m.
Nykthos is not a triggered ability, its an activated ability... and not an activated mana ability... you pay mana and tap it as a cost to activate the ability... elvish mystic is a mana ability, tapping a land is a mana ability without having to pay a cost,.. and "605.1b A triggered ability without a target that triggers from activating a mana ability and could put mana into a players mana pool when it resolves is a mana ability." is stating that a TRIGGRED ability that results in mana... a triggered ability says "when, at, wherever" for the pithing needle not to work the land would have to read, when nykthos becomes tapped or something alone those lines.
December 8, 2013 2:44 p.m.
but it meets the 3 criteria to be a mana ability, regardless on if it cost mana to activate the ability.
1) it does not have a target.
2) it produces mana
3) it is not a loyalty ability (planeswalker)
all 3 are true for nykthos, which makes it a mana ability.
December 8, 2013 5 p.m.
Stop this pointless argument, ask a judge if you're in doubt. I did it for you.
December 8, 2013 6:14 p.m.
I really like this deck and I wanted to test it. +1
So i was playing this deck at our local standard tournament last weekend. I hope you are not offended by this. Of course, i adapted the sideboard to my local meta, but the maindeck was almost the same as you have it here except for the Chandras. I ended up 3-0-1 at 2nd place. We were playing top 4 afterwards, but there I could not lock my enemy (an aristocrats variant) fast enough in semi-finals.
Qualifying:2-0 against a ramp variant. Could lock his lands fast enough in both games and finished with monstrous ember swallowers.
2:0 against Esper Control. Also here, I was able to lock him fast enough before he could even start countering my spells. Yay!
2:1 against Slives (G/R/U). First match, he was unlucky got manastuck without my spells and did not draw any Manaweft Sliver s, so I could easily lock him down.In the second match he had a perfect start, growing his slivers and in turn 3 he had 3x 2/2 flying slivers. Could not handle it as it was too fast.In the third game I could lock him again, Shock ing his manaslivers and then finish with two Stormbreath dragons.
0:2 against Golgari. He was able to play a Desecration Demon in both games in turn 4, I was missing any ramp creatures so I could not keep up. Think if I play this deck again I'll also splash in some black to handle creatures easier...
Finished 2nd place in qualifiers.
Semi final:1:2 against new Aristocrat variant. first game he killed me pretty easy, as his highest manacost was 3, so even with landhate, I could not achieve anything. Was overrun easily with too many creatures my Ember swallowers could handle.2nd game, I could ramp fast (Elf + Caryatid) and boardwiped with Anger of the Gods . He could not recover and I took his lands down.In the final round, I had to mulligan down to 5 cards as I had no lands. Then, he played Thoughtseize, Duress and a Sin collector in the first three rounds, leaving me exposed with nothing but a single land. Unnecessary to say I lost this match :P
Summarized, I'm surprised this deck idea is not played more often. Of course, these games showed some weaknesses against creatures on the battlefield with toughness greater than 4, but still it works pretty constant.
December 9, 2013 5:47 a.m.
We're you carrying Plummet s? I know its not a perfect answer but its a decent one.
Right now I fear black slows it down and there's not too much answer for this deck against the Demons. I'm hoping for just one or two cards to assist this deck in the next set release and this would become a FNM staple.
I like playing it and am now known for it. And I get side boarded against and that in itself is an honor.
I hope everyone else trying it out is having just as much fun as I am.
December 10, 2013 5:21 p.m.
@yak300 if you want to splash black take a look at my version of this deck
December 10, 2013 11:34 p.m.
I ran your deck at a local event yesterday. I kept everything how it is to see how it does. I ended up going 2-2 but the were great match ups. here are the results:
2-1 vs. Mono Black Devotion:
Game 2: This one was a lot closer. He stabalized at 6 lands since I wasn't getting the land D cards I needed and running mono black made using Encroaching Wastes near impossible. I could only hit the Mutavault that he played. he ended up winning this game with a well times Grey Merchant of Asphodel bringing his life total up to 4 when I was at 2. Then he Pharika's Cure my satyr token just in time to swing in for the 2 damage he needed.
Game 3: This one was exactly how this deck wants to be played. Had a perfect ramp up to Ember Swallower , Xenagos, The Reveler , and Chandra, Pyromaster turns 3, 4, and 5. since I kept on chump blocking with the tokens I was able to ultimate Chandra, Pyromaster . I decided to cast a Bramblecrush from the 10 exiled cards to blow up 3 lands and that sealed the deal.
2-0 vs. Esper control
This one is a fairly easy match up. as soon as he missed one land drop it was game over both games. Plain and simple. Kinda helped that on game 2 he wasn't drawing any removal and I blew up Jace, Architect of Thought with a Bramblecrush .I like how frustrated esper players get when I start controlling THEM!
1-2 vs Jund Mid-range
This one was fun. it was basically a race to see who got out there win con first. It was actually about the same deck, but instead of LD cards he had more creatures and kill creature. He just got the better cards on draws is what it came down to.
1-2 vs Mono Blue
Also a very fun match up. Both my opponent and I had a great time with this. If you are not having fun, then what's the point right? This one came down to if I can kill his Cloudfin Raptor before it got big, take out the Nightveil Specter , and make sure he stayed at 3-4 lands the whole game till I can get out a Stormbreath Dragon . First game I pulled it off flawlessly. Second game... he had the perfect hand and I kept an ok hand and he out played me there. kudos to him on that. and on the third game I had to mull down 5 and still had nothing to combat his deck. the killer for me that game is when he got my Mistcutter Hydra from the Nightveil Specter on the swing. Downhill from there.
December 12, 2013 4:32 p.m.
December 12, 2013 5:49 p.m.
he has answers to all that in the deck, the main issue I forsee is tidebindes on his bombs, after that not much he can do and 1 or 2 skylashers will only delay the inevitable because they are 2/2's not beatsticks. against mono blue he has to side in ALL of the hate he has and pray to win, blue is just so strong. the most important thing to consider is to hold that demolish for the bident and the fade to antiquity for thassa then your sitting high over mono blue once they have no draw.
December 12, 2013 7:38 p.m.
I threw this deck together just for fun for last FNM. No play testing and I went 4-1! I just lost to a control deck, he always had too many lands. +1 for a fun deck!
December 16, 2013 10:08 a.m.
Love the Deck. I had a very similar land destruction deck built but didn't have the Stormbreath Dragon , I only have one. That being said, I love the optimal use of that card, nailing them for all the spells in their hand that they can't cast.
But my real question is Mono Blue. How have you fared against Master of Waves and Tidebinder Mage ? That is the winner at my local meta. Followed closely by mono black and mono red. The best I've gone was 3-2 a few time with Izzet/Control Mid-range.
Great Deck. Awesome to see Land Destruction is back!
December 16, 2013 12:09 p.m.
Either keeping them from getting to 4 mana, which is easy enough if you go first, or Anger of the Gods . I will admit I have yet to play against this deck since no one plays it at my local card store. I can blow up Tidebinder easy enough so he doesn't worry me.
December 17, 2013 3:51 p.m.
How often do you side in your wasteland viper? And have you thought of gruul charm or clan defiance? I never liked not having a late game sync, some games it gets stalemate untill I get overrun because mizzium only does so much, with my black splash its not uncommon to Rakdos return for 10-15
December 19, 2013 4:26 p.m.
Would Flesh / Blood be a useful card here? It may be a sorcery speed card, but even with un-monstrous Stormbreath Dragon or Ember Swallower it deals more damage than a Lightning Strike and after monstrosity it is more powerful that two Lightning Strike . It could be better, but the loss of instant speed may be too much of a trade off in some games.
January 8, 2014 1:08 p.m.
I agree it is a good card, in fact Flesh / Blood is my favorite card in standard right now. But the loss of instant speed could be a costly trade off in this style of play.
January 10, 2014 3:33 p.m.
Wasteland Viper look fairly useless when you are already boarding plenty of creature removal in your mainboard and sideboard. I think you can better utilize these 4 slots for something else such as Skullcrack or a 4th Stormbreath Dragon . Maybe even consider Flesh / Blood or a card that more directly counters one of your harder matchups etc.
January 11, 2014 2:12 a.m.
For the love... Skullcrack would have saved me against a few for sure. I'm glad you suggested them over Viper. I do have enough removal and these can go and Skulcracks are perfect!
January 13, 2014 12:22 p.m.
So im fairly new here and back to magic. I am in the process of building this deck but I am short a [Chandra Pyromancer], the [Stormbreath Dragon] and also the [Stomping Ground]. Any ideas on other good adds.
January 15, 2014 10:46 p.m.
Use 2 "[" to make your links turn blue for card display. You can use a Mountain or a Forest to replace Temple of Abandon as you want the mana to be available when you play it. As for Chandra, Pyromaster try Frenzied Tilling it has the ramping effect and the destruction effect mainly used by Chandra with almost the same mana cost. As for Stormbreath Dragon theres not much like him and his synergy here. I would suggest a bigger creature. Possibly one that is tougher to destroy. Possibly Sylvan Primordial , Mistcutter Hydra , Arbor Colossus
January 16, 2014 11:38 a.m.
Thanks. I couldn't remmeber if it was 1[ or 2. And thanks for the reply. I was thinking of putting some bigger creatures in to replace the Stormbreath Dragon but I just wanted to ask people's advice on it.
January 16, 2014 12:50 p.m.
Played a very slight variation of this at GPT Brisbane this weekend - Cockblocked a number of people out of the top 8 and had a blast. (See: Land Destro [14th Place (3-1-2) @GPT])This deck is so very close to being amazing - Needs a little something though.
January 19, 2014 7:54 p.m.
2-1 against my Can You Golgari? FNM deck in playtest. Really fun!
January 19, 2014 9:02 p.m.
Hey, Love the deck. Planning on making something similar for some upcoming standard tournaments. What do you think of Nessian Demolok coming out in BNG?
January 23, 2014 11:35 a.m.
I just took a look at it along with Courser of Kruphix . Nessian Demolok is good but they will most likely always take the 6/6 and then destroy it or return it or what have you. Early they will not lose the land and late game they know your plot and will not lose the land.
As for Courser of Kruphix it makes sure you don't slow draw land and keeps your pace up. Along with Chandra, Pyromancer you'd know what you could be casting a huge advantage.
January 23, 2014 12:46 p.m.
Have you considered Unravel the Aether to deal with gods?
February 7, 2014 11:50 p.m.
How do you handle the mono-black decks? My LGS hosts smallish tournaments on fridays (not FNM yet, still new store) and i've come in 2nd twice in a row (12-14 people total). The mono-black decks are the most difficult with their Thoughtsieze and Hero's Downfall and the like. Not to mention Desecration Demon and Gary... Thoughts? Also, with Born of the Gods out now, I think im gonna see more mill decks. Advice for that too?
February 8, 2014 1:55 a.m.
i made a very similar deck some time ago, and works pretty well too
February 11, 2014 1:12 p.m.
I have tried Deathrite Shaman and although he works decently. i'd have to remove some of my removal or ramp and his mana gain isnt a definite thing and once you get going you get the mana you require to run it.
I do like the cost of Unravel the Aether but the possibility of them getting it back, its worth just paying 1 more to never see it again.
With the deck not being "Main Stream" most mono-black opponents don't thoughtsieze the 4 mana land D although they like to target mana ramps. But to be honest is there any real answer to a Thoughtsieze other then counter spells? Desecration is the only foreseeable issue and I have run into it. Thus sideboarded Plummet . The biggest thing with seeing black is keeping them from 4 mana. keeping them from ever dropping a daemon is your best option.
As for mill I agree it could make a comeback. I may need to think about siding in Elixir of Immortality against those decks. This card is also the reason mill cant stand strong as If it got to be big we'd all just carry 3 or 4 mainboard and not worry about mill.
February 18, 2014 1:35 p.m.
March 3, 2014 12:20 p.m.
To those that think that Pithing Needle will take care if your opponents control esper decks with AEtherling or Obzedat, Ghost Council you're fooling yourself. I have never seen a control esper not run a Detention Sphere . I run 4 detention spheres and a gimmick of other Cancel s or Negate . A true control deck would never give you the chance to play pithing needle. Must say I enjoy the thought put into this deck though. I would imagine it works wonders on mid-range. My only suggestion is Signal the Clans
March 8, 2014 5:53 a.m.
I agree, I am running this deck now and it is fantastic except against mono black devotion. Too much removal for mana dorks and ember swallower and except for drawing plummet you can't deal with desecration demon. Any suggestions on how to deal with mono black? Maybe transform the deck into a burn deck or something else after sideboard?
Regardless this is an amazing deck that I enjoy. I played a mazes end deck tonight with it. Turn 3 demolish, turn 4 demolish, turn five bramble crush, turn 6 ember swallower. He immediately scooped!
April 2, 2014 12:16 a.m.
I hope that our Rancorous Emperor is still alive.
April 25, 2014 3:43 a.m.
Haha, Ok I'm glad I logged in. To be honest folks Magic has fallen off for me after the release of Diablo III, but it seems I have fans and I won't let anyone down. I do like this card as it puts a creature on the field and lets me destroy a land a huge play as the point is to outpace them.
April 28, 2014 5:20 p.m.
I think Desecration Plague is better than Demolish, since it can hit enchantment creatures
April 29, 2014 10:56 a.m.
Your manabase needs fixing, you need 14 sources to consistently hit 1 green on turn 1.you have 5 forest and 4 stomping ground so that's only 9 untapped sources on turn 1Maybe upgrade this to 12/13/14 untapped sources
April 29, 2014 11:23 a.m.
True, hitting that 1 green mostly up until now was probably good luck. I like your idea and made it 13 untapped sources. I think it would be a lot more consistent on the mana ramp this way.
April 29, 2014 12:42 p.m.
So, I skimmed through and didn't see anyone else point out something about Wasteland Viper being used as dizzzyme says.. "he can get around magma jet on his elf or chump block to get rid of a big creature" Well, he can get around Magma Jet on his elf if the elf is attacking. And sure, you can chump with the Viper itself.. But it seems like you're saying you can chump with the Elf and use the Viper.. That's not how Bloodrush works. Bloodrush only works on attacking creatures. That card doesn't belong anywhere near this deck lol. Also, Frenzied Tilling is CMC 5. Do you really want LD fighting for the 5-slot with Stormbreath Dragon ?
You need something to deal with decks like Jund that thrive on 3-4 drops and run accelerators. T3-4's consisting of a pair of threats like Reaper of the Wilds , Polukranos, World Eater , Arbor Colossus , and the aforementioned Desecration Demon seem very hard for you to beat. They just have more fat than you, and hard removal for your fat when you drop it, and they can function off 2-3 lands, given their mana dorks, just like you could. Maybe some number of Clan Defiance in your sideboard? It's a potential finisher, effective with the mana you can hit, and removal for those pesky 5+toughness creatures.
May 13, 2014 4 p.m.
I just swapped 2 Chandras for 2 Courser of Kruphix as her main objective was to get usable cards in my hand. And this leaves me with a replenishing 4 life as hers is gone quickly. Viper really did have no place and I never really used it, it was sided for a bit but never tohught it useful. Frenzied Tilling was only in here early when there was limited LD cards. It hasn't seen play in a coons age.
Clan Defiance Would be good as I seem to be able to get up to 10+ mana. Its a good kill spell and good for straight player damage all in one go.
May 13, 2014 4:45 p.m.
So, Conspiracy had an interesting card put into it Decimate imagine if this were printed in M15. O. M. G.
May 20, 2014 1:43 p.m.
June 26, 2014 1:11 p.m.
Four whole dragons. The balls, my friend. The balls. I like.
July 1, 2014 3:29 p.m.
@EmperorRancor First off, great tag, giving the Croc trample and swinging with him on T3 was too good.
But! Never happen.. They wouldn't have printed it in Conspiracy if it was going to come out in M15. =( Decimate would be sick in the current meta, though.
July 1, 2014 4:10 p.m.
4 dragons. usually when they're land locked you swing out with elves or a monstrous Ember Swallower . Dragons are just there for power and the turn 3 drop and making them pee themselves.
July 8, 2014 2:55 p.m.
This deck looks really fun, but are there any alternatives to Stormbreath Dragon ? I'm kind of a cheapskate and don't wanna drop 40 bucks on a playset right now :P Thanks!
September 12, 2014 3:51 p.m.
I would say the era of land destruction came to an end with the new rotation...the only land hate we got now is Desecration Plague and Demolish . That makes 8 Land hate cards, not counting Spiteful Blow as it is way too expensive and off colors. The missing "destroy noncreature permanent" of Bramblecrush leaves this deck more vulnerable to i.e. planeswalkers and the Encroaching Wastes cannot be replaced. So unless there is more land hate to come with the new editions, I would say it's no longer playable in standard for the moment.
October 8, 2014 11:13 a.m.
Now that this deck would be good as a Modern deck, we can include Ajani Vengeant ! :D The last ability would be great for this deck.
October 9, 2014 7:56 p.m.
April 6, 2015 2:26 a.m.
Perhaps rootbound crag in place of stomping grounds? I for one don't like paying life
February 23, 2016 5:25 p.m.
None of my games every really would have changed for the 2 damage I took early. It was always a steamroll and we all knew the outcome by turn 5. Or mono blue/black control made me wait 30 min to get their AEtherling. Most of those I should have just walked away. They were never fun.
Monogreen was good if they got their ramp first, those games were me either losing or clearing the board with overloaded Mizzium Mortars.
February 23, 2016 8:04 p.m.
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|Date added||3 years|
|Last updated||1 year|
This deck is Modern legal.
|Tokens||Domri, 2/2 Satyr|
|Folders||fun, decks, land destruct, To see, Theros STD, Favorite Decks, Stuff I Might Wanna Do, testing, Decks I Want to Try, Favs, See all 211|
|Top rank||#1 on 2013-11-04|