Your deck seems extremely efficient in a 1v1 match, but not as efficient with more opponents (although still annoying). I think for larger matches, you should have board removal cards like damnation, not just individual removal. One of these cards would be fine since you can tutor it with liliana vess if really needed. Overall, the deck looks extremely fun to play and extremely annoying to play against :)
August 4, 2017 1:30 p.m.
Thanks noobnein! You're right - the multiplayer game is the biggest challenge here.
I've included Decree of Pain as a board sweeper for that purpose (though pricey to cast) and Noetic Scales to continually bounce creatures back to their owner's hands (bounce your creatures back to your hand, then I make you discard them). I've also tried to favor discard that hits all opponents rather than single-target discard.
I think you've hit the nail on the head though - I might want to consider increasing my board sweepers to include Damnation (but my wallet!), especially considering the low creature count I'm running. I'll keep my eye on that as I playtest this.
August 4, 2017 1:55 p.m.
I love this deck so much.Discard is probably my favourite mechanic in the game, and I love what you've done with it. I definitely want to put Noetic Scales in my deck. I have a discard deck based around Marrow-Gnawer in a rat-tribal deck. I'm very happy to look through this deck.
August 6, 2017 4:30 a.m.
I'd recommend Black Sun's Zenith as a sweeper since it gets around indestructible.
September 9, 2017 8:35 p.m.
Maybe a Wit's End? And plus, I made a real similar deck to this one: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/turn-4-win-with-discard-1/
September 10, 2017 9:19 a.m.
Good thinking Perpetual! I've got Mutilate in here for the same effect of getting around indestructible creatures - I'm hoping it'll do the same job for less mana than Black Sun's Zenith would cost me. Since I'm in mono black, typically I have enough swamps to finish off the creatures I need to. I'll see if Mutilate does the trick and if not, rotate it out for a Black Sun's Zenith.
@Infiniteomniscience: I love the art on Wit's End but it's so expensive to cast and it only targets one player - which is less ideal in EDH. I think I'll pass on it because by the time I have to cast it, I've probably already reduced my opponents to only a couple cards left in their hand and 7 mana to make them discard 2-3 cards doesn't seem worth it.
September 10, 2017 9:53 p.m.
September 18, 2017 8:01 p.m.
September 29, 2017 5:53 a.m.
November 4, 2017 12:21 a.m.
This amuses me. I'm sure there are many potential versions of this but the best version will be mostly based on what you play against. What kind of decks do you usually play against?
December 28, 2017 12:01 a.m.
You might find a quicker route to locking down the whole table is Maralen of the Mornsong and Teferi's Puzzle Box. They tutor for a card, then put their hand on the bottom of their library. On your turn, stack the triggers the other way so that you put your hand on the bottom, then tutor for a card.
December 28, 2017 12:28 p.m.
Oh--and think about Innocent Blood for quick and cheap early removal.
December 28, 2017 12:43 p.m.
nero92 why? If your opponent's have 3 or 4 cards in hand you're in bad shape, and 2 damage is not going to change that.
December 28, 2017 5:40 p.m.
"With this deck I'm aiming to cripple my opponents by completely emptying their hand... and discarding them to death."
If your deck works, they will have less than 3 cards on their hands, I assumed. At least it's more likely than Shrieking Affliction
December 28, 2017 6:04 p.m.
HAHA whoops, I forgot it was "unless" they have 3 or 4. Ok that does make it better, but I personally wouldn't play it due to the 4 cmc but I play at a highly volatile table.
December 28, 2017 6:19 p.m.
Holy smokes, I love the discussion this is generating! Thank you all for your comments!
geekmp3: I like the cheap CMC of Planar Void but I worry about exiling some of my key enchantments or artifacts. Turns out, people really don't like discarding their whole hand and a lot of my permanents become quick targets. I've won a couple games by pulling my stuff back from the graveyard and recasting it.
Phenix: I considered Nirkana Revenant for ramp but she's so expensive to cast that I decided not to. I generally prefer to keep my ramp spells cheaper so I can cast them early game, or later game I can cast them and other things. I'm currently a little on the fence about keeping Caged Sun.
Thanks Kaleo42, I thought it was an amusing concept, too. Turned out to be just as fun to play. The decks I play against are a bit of a mixed bag. It's mostly kitchen table EDH, though my playgroup's experienced a bit of power creep as we strive to outdo one another. Some strong Jhoira suspending, tokens, combos, a number of quality voltron commanders but generally not much cruel control.
NoSoyYucateco, you're giving me good food for thought here:
Yeah, Scythe Specter's discard is conditional, relying on it dealing combat damage but I really like that makes all opponents discard. Its 6 CMC is pretty tough to swallow though - especially if it's killed before it even attacks. I did consider Bloodhusk Ritualist early on when building this deck but cut it, thinking that to make one person discard one card wasn't a great investment. But if I spent the same as Scythe Specter cost, I'd get that person to discard 3 immediately. Hmmm. I do like that the discard happens immediately, and I can scale my mana investment to "right-size" how many cards I want someone to discard. I might switch these two up.
Your Maralen of the Mornsong and Teferi's Puzzle Box combo is pretty cool and would definitely lock down the whole table. I like that Maralen can help me tutor up the puzzle box to complete the combo. But sometimes I want my opponents to draw cards, just so I can make them discard them and take damage with Liliana's Caress, Megrim and Raiders' Wake. Also, the puzzle box is a bit of a dead card to me without Maralen in play. I'll think on it.
I had Innocent Blood in my list for a while but with so few creatures, I was hesitant to run it for fear of having to sacrifice something really good. I figured Chainer's Edict was safer and pretty cheap for .
December 29, 2017 3:42 a.m.
Ensnaring Bridge is great against creatures, and good flavor.
January 26, 2018 10:24 a.m.
Monomania is great in the late game when you end up against one opponent. If you play Thoughtseize, you may as well play Monomania
January 26, 2018 5:28 p.m.
January 27, 2018 2:07 p.m.
February 4, 2018 4:41 p.m.
Mike94: Hmmmm. Myojin of Night's Reach is neat but pretty costly to cast. My concern is that by the time I cast it (mid to late game), my opponents won't have many cards in hand so it might not be worth the mana investment. I'll think on it but I'm not rushing to add it.
Kyln: No argument about Ensnaring Bridge, it's perfect. The only reason I didn't include it from the start was budget concerns. But I splurged and picked one up... a week before it was revealed as a reprint in Masters 25 :p
notorioez: I've tried to cut down on the single-player-target spells in this deck and for the cost of Monomania, I'd probably rather something that makes them discard their whole hand. Like maybe Mind Twist... which I just recently took out.
IAmTheWraith you definitely grabbed my attention with Liliana, Heretical Healer Flip as a commander. I was thinking about her for at least a month after your suggestion and even printed out as proxy of her to test as a commander. Then I realized her trigger to transform is based on another nontoken creature I control dying (not her dying), which is a bit more limiting when I only have 12 other creatures in the deck. In the end, I'm gonna pass on her as a general.
I hear you EternalBrewmaster. One with Nothing is super cool and I've used it in Dredge decks to great effect ;) But here it's not really on-strategy: I want to focus on making my opponents discard and while I don't mind "everyone discards" effects, there's little benefit to only me discarding my hand.
April 6, 2018 2:51 p.m.
Very nice deck!One question, can you use Crypt Ghast in mono Black? Because have a Withe Mark in the text..Thanks for the ideias!