Welcome! Come one, come all, and beholdith a more rampy and control version of a Nekusar force feed/Wheel deck. This deck contains the best of all worlds and has been meticulously crafted to; lower cmc, remove excessive redundancy, and add elements of control to deal with the onslaught of obstacles and difficulties my opponents throw at me.

A little bit about my playgroup and the reasons behind some of the choices in this deck. First off I play in an increasingly competitive play group. We have an average of 12 people who meet weekly and sometimes a smaller group twice a week. About half of these people run Competitive EDH decks regularly and the other half are split between a high level casual and let's say.. 'working out the kinks' casual. SO for the most part I orient myself in the stronger match ups. Most games we play are 3-4 player, more often than not 4 player. In these games common decks i'm up against are;

Azami, Lady of Scrolls HEAVY control and combo

Captain Sisay STAX

Momir Vig, Simic Visionary RAMP durdle tutor midrange swarm (actually ends up being pretty powerful)

The Gitrog Monster COMBO Durdle

Brago, King Eternal STAX

Edric, Spymaster of Trest SWARM

etc etcThere's more but you get the idea.

Anyways.. STAX and CONTROL have plagued our play group the past number of months. Because of this I've needed to adapt and get a little more evil (devil face)

I've had some fun with Ayli, and Tasigur.. but now I want to take all my opponents out equality.. because equality right? So direct damage Nekusar here we are!

I've considered a few different approaches to the meta in this deck. Of course there's a variety. I could go ultra ramp.. run some dark ritual/lotus cards and just really zone in on wheel into wheel into wheel. But the problem there is I'm pretty confident my play group can crack that problem, and with the level of control around me I think I'd likely get shut down. Ramp is key in my playgroup, and it's a downside with Grixis colours. I could focus on stacking damage engines, increase the discard triggers (like adding megrim back in etc) but I take utter delight in disruption and want to explore the power of adding an element of control to this deck.

I've made the choice of running a few recursion spells instead of adding more wheels as these will allow me more flexibility (say I need to recur a tutor or something other than a wheel) so the goal is to early game ramp, wheel, tutor and start to play the delicate balance of sitting a little in the background while i rack up a few control pieces on board/in hand and ultimately go off with the infinites, direct damage wheels, combos etc.

It is usually unlikely to straight up steamroll in my playgroup. It's often best to be in 2nd or 3rd place and to conceal your true power, wait for the right moment and blast ahead. This is why I have decided to include disruption and control instead of doubling down on damage triggers and wheels. That.. and the delight of shutting off tutors/messing with their ramp.

SO far, the version before this one (I've changed 10 or so cards since) was pretty powerful. My opponents went straight for their most powerful builds, and it still faired well. I will likely experiment with both; fine tuning the control Nekusar and contrasting with a more classic Nekusar build with far less control.

Please do, let me know what you think, or if you have any thoughts or suggestions. If you like the deck please consider upvoting and commenting to increase it's visibility and the conversation around creating the ULTIMATE Nekusar build. Thanks!

General Tzu

Note Sideboard cards were the "final cuts" and most difficult to remove, ones I may need to bring back in, or have at my side depending on who I'm playing. 'Maybe Board' were all the cards I considered (with a few exceptions of some cards I deleted instead of moving over to the Maybe Board)




Mataogetrekt says... #1

Looks like a really cool and original deck. I'm personally looking for a more under the radar, yet competitive deck and this looks awesome. I'm personally torn between this and Azami as i love drawing cards , and control / combo decks. Just one question. How does the deck deal with a blood moon early in the game?

May 30, 2017 9:10 p.m.

GeneralTzu says... #2


Hey dude, thanks for the comment & up vote.

So first, this will be under the radar-a bit in my play group.. but not too much. In the initial play throughs my buddies were still cracking out their strong decks. But it's under the radar enough to not get alllll the hate from alllll the opponents right out the gate.

Azami is super powerful. My friend uses her for combo/control and she's mega powerful. It's typically 3v1 even with 4 competitive decks. He runs like 20 counters. It's stupid. haha

Re; Blood Moon. To be honest, my play group has never ran that card. There's very little red in our group. It's a strong card. And, yeah, it'd give this deck some trouble. In general Grixis is a terrible combination of colours for enchantment removal. I have a bit of artifact removal here, and definitely was looking for some good ways to deal with enchantment removal, but didn't really find a 'good' solution.


Karn Liberated

Aura Thief (always a favourite.. i'd consider her but at this point removing anything from this deck would throw the balance. And trouble is it's not direct if I don't have a sac engine) Considered Aura Flux but that'd be annoying for me too, considering ramp is tough in GrixisChaos Warp.. actually is going into side board and I would consider it for a slot.. Spine of Ish SahMemory Plunder (maybe???)

I came to conclude that my best bet might be to just run this deck as strong as possible, avoid some of these wonky or expensive options and hope someone else deals with removal. My play group is heavy on removal and counters so anything too strong will likely draw hate from all the other people in the game too.

I do have the Cyclonic Rift too.

That said, the other approach to dealing with some troubling enchantments is not to allow them in the first place. This is partly where the counters come in. I have 5 outright, Glen Elendra Archmage (effectively 2), 3 tutors if I need to stock one, and recursion to reuse them if they're in graveyard. Better to deal with a problem before it even becomes a problem I say :P

I started this deck leaning close to 10/11 counters, but eventually decided to add a little more disruption/tutor hate instead.

If you know of any sweet cards that I'm missing please do drop some knowledge! haha

Thanks for commenting!! Let me know your thoughts brudda

May 31, 2017 12:31 a.m.

AlexoBn says... #3

Nice list. You might consider giving nekusar infect because that is so much faster than killing 40hp :D

Glistening Oil seems like the best option

May 31, 2017 12:53 a.m.

GeneralTzu says... #4


Hey man, thanks for the comment!

Haha yeah.. infect is a sneaky trick. I like it. I opted for Phyresis as you'll see in the "tricks" section up there.. but I didn't think have redundancy of infect was worth a card bump. I have 3 tutors, draw engines,wheels and recursion. I'm confident I can get it when needed. That said.. i'm always open to hearing a good debate.. if the logic is tight, I could be convinced to go heavier on infect. Thought Phyresis was a better choice if I had to choose one.

May 31, 2017 2:19 a.m.

Brodolf says... #5

Have you thought of adding Fevered Visions to the deck?

May 31, 2017 1:44 p.m.

GeneralTzu says... #6

Hey Brodolf !!

Thanks for the comment.

In the early stages of deck building for this deck I looked at Fevered Visions. It's definitely one that is rather common to see with Nekusar. That said, for me, in this deck I considered it to be a little too cute, not quite powerful or reliable enough to be worth a slot. Here's my thinking;

On the plus side; 1) It's cheap2) It draws a player an extra card per turn3) I doubt it'd be worthy (in the eyes of my opponents) of a counter or spot removal.The down side; 1) It requires them to have 4 cards to do any damage2) When it does damage it's only 2 damage.

I'd prefer to focus on larger effects when it comes to drawing and damage. When you're looking at the realistic possibility of having a board with;

Nekusar, the Mindrazer

Liliana's Caress

And then dropping say a Whispering Madness In many scenarios I'll have well over 7 cards.. but let's say the max is 7 that's still7 damage for the cards they drew, maybe 8-14 damage for the discard so 15-21 damage in one turn with just a single card. Yeah I mean I guess I could give them 1 more card for one more damage, and then hey if they have over 4 cards they get 2 more that turn, but that's only 3 damage MAX if they have a full hand. I just think it's a little too cute :P

Maybe I'm missing something though, always open to being proven wrong. And happy to reconsider any card.

Thanks again for the comment!

May 31, 2017 2:48 p.m.

marsthesoos says... #7

Is there a reason we are playing bad ramp over signets, chrome mox and mana vault?

May 31, 2017 5 p.m.

Mataogetrekt says... #8

Yeah no problem dude haha. And im really liking the feel of piloting nekusar, after playtesting this list that is. What are your thoughts on Phyrexian Tyranny? Ive found it to be pretty decent reguardless of the fact that it hits you aswell as opponents because many people tend to tap out on low life totals. But with nekusar out, every card is a Lightning Bolt.

May 31, 2017 7:28 p.m.

GeneralTzu says... #9

Hey marsthesoos!!

Thanks for the comment.

I like Chrome Mox and Mana Vault

I run Mana Vault in my Brago, King Eternal deck, as I have a consistent and reliable method for untapping it. But what would be the strategy here, in your opinion? Pay 4? .. that's kinda lame no?

As for Chrome Mox this deck has stripped away redundancy, and because of that having to exile one of my own cards would suck balls.

Both of those cards offer the advantage of being cheap or free. I dig that. However, my goal in this deck is not to attempt a turn 3 win. I obviously do want to use strategic ramp, and have thinned out to what we have left.

Signets.. I've always kinda seen them as decent but mediocre at the same time. Maybe I should be convinced otherwise? but I've never found them great.

Expedition Map allows me to tutor for a utility land.Burnished Hart and Wayfarer's Bauble and Solemn Simulacrum allow me to thin out the deck, increasing consistency of draws and to put land straight into play, Solemn Simulacrum obviously also has draw synergy and is a body (an inherent weakness of this deck is creature damage).

Obviously Thought Vessel isn't the strongest ramp card, but having a little redundancy in no max hand size is a good idea when I'm aiming for large hands.

What would you consider the weakest links? And you'd suggest bumping them for the signets/mox/and vault?

Thanks again

May 31, 2017 7:56 p.m.

GeneralTzu says... #10

Hey Mataogetrekt !!

Nice man!! Glad to see you running it too.. and that play testing this build treated you well. Tonight will be the first test in person, so I'm excited to give it a run and test the strategy out. Like I've said, I've play tested an earlier version but have since changed the strategy a bit and modded about 10-12 cards. So this'll be a new experience.

Phyrexian Tyranny was a hard one to bump. And may be one I bring back if I find I'm not winning enough. If this build doesn't prove strong enough I suspect Megrim and Phyrexian Tyranny will be added back in.. or at the very least considered. That or.. I could add more redundancy for infect. I have a feeling this will play well as is, but you may be right. This deck has the potential to do a decent amount of self inflicted damage, what with all the shock lands, Mana Crypt Grim Tutor Vampiric Tutor etc.. I felt, when making the final cuts for this deck, that the rate that could do damage to myself would mean I'd have to really prioritize life gain in many scenarios, and I felt that ultimately I can deal enough damage to not need Phyrexian Tyranny but I guess we'll be testing that assumption :P

If you do decide to run it, or any changes please do keep me posted with the results! Or if you just end up playing this deck! Really interested in what we can all hammer out for a competitive Nekusar with a flavour of control.

May 31, 2017 8:09 p.m.

Entrei says... #11 say competitive, I'm afraid I don't see it. For starters, you are missing Curiosity and Helm of the Ghastlord, which make Nekusar work way better. Quite a bit of your ramp is inneficient, with map, hart, and bauble being easily replaced by signets or the talismans. Teferi is kinda meh in this, I would suggest something a la Hive Mind or Teferi's Puzzle Box instead. Other than that, idk. When you say fast do the decks in your pod win? Oh, I would also advise the primary combo to be something that fits with nekusars strengths well, such as Mind Over Matter+ Temple Bell or such

May 31, 2017 11:43 p.m.

First off, I love the deck. Seems very original and I like how you are trying to play around your playgroup (A lot of people seem to disregard that when building a deck +1) but I feel as if a few things are missing from this deck. First of all Hive Mind is an extremely strong card for this deck that are almost an auto include. Also something that is a personal include in my deck is a lot of the copy target instant or sorcery spells such as Dualcaster Mage or Wild Ricochet. These arent auto includes by any means but they do have a wide variety of uses. First of all they are low mana cost typically, two you can use them on your wheel effects, three, you can use them as a sort of counter magic or at least protect your cards from being countered, four you could even use them on other peoples cards like their demonic tutor. Some cards that I might suggest to take out would be Overburden This doesn't sound very necessary, you said yourself that your playgroup is infected with stax and control. How often are they playing creatures and how often is this card going to help translate the game into a win for you. Gilded Drake, im not seeing the 100% purpose of this card. Like, yea I guess if someone randomly drops a blightsteel you could take it or something but in a meta of such high counter magic and control I don't know if this is truly the best card for the deck I would honestly run another counter spell.

I like the deck a lot though, these are just my personal opinions +1

June 1, 2017 11:10 a.m.

GeneralTzu says... #13

Hey Entrei !!

The fine details are still being ironed out ;) but that's the goal.

I honestly did overlook Curiosity and Helm of the Ghastlordbut you're right, they synergize really well here. The only thing I'll have to be concerned about is keeping the commander safe, and adding more protection. The more OP I make him the more he'll be targeted.

Ramp; this is one I'm debating quite a bit. And you may be right, but my playgroup runs A LOT of blue. And we definitely see Treachery and Gilded Drake very frequently. The map allows me to tutor a homeward path or a Reliquary Tower though I have been debating Wayfarer's Bauble and Burnished Hart I wanted to have a little protection against destruction and stax. Notably, one of my opponents runs Null Rod and it sees play pretty regularly. I know I cannot let this dictate all of my play, the destruction and star were part of my thinking. That said, cheating more lands out does make Land Equilibrium less drastic.

As for question on speed of games. Well, as things started to get nastier, we started to see a lot of turn 4 wins maybe turn 5, with a god hand turn 3. BUT since this shift weve seen the meta get heavy control and stax. Because of this even competitive games end up being stalled. It's an interesting dynamic, but that's why I've included a few cards that are maybe a little effect as the game goes on, such as Ob Nixilis, Unshackled and
Stranglehold there's often a lot of building, wiping/reseting, and grinding out an edge. Before the meta went this control/stax it was simply whoever got out the gate best in the first three turns in most cases.

I think you're right about the Mind Over Matter combo, it is more in suit than the Mindcrank combo.. i've bumped that in favour of the Mind.

Definitely looking for as much scrutiny as possible, so this deck can become the best version possible. I appreciate it, and any other ideas you contribute.

June 1, 2017 11:19 a.m.

GeneralTzu says... #14

Hey themysterypoop!!

Thanks for the up vote and comment and kind words!!

Ok so I definitely considered Hive Mind in the deck, but didn't end up keeping it because; a) this card can be mega abused (for good) and this decks purpose isn't really to abuse it. b) it's a 6 casting cost that'll likely get countered just cause it's f*cky and control players won't like their calculations being scrambled.

That said, other than adding mega value to wheels, and some f*ckery to tutors and such, and don't get me wrong I can see how this would be pretty crazy, I often see people add it for protection against counters. Maybe I'm missing something but I don't see how this would work for me in many cases. Say at the table of 4 I'm in position 1 and I drop a spell (say nekusar) that the player in position 3 counters, wouldn't the stack resolve like this; nekusar --> player 3 counter targets nekusar---> player 4 counter targets nekusar --> player 1 me, tries to counter 1 of the two nekusar counters and politics my way into convincing player 4 to counter the other --> player 4 realizes I'm a little shit and counters nekusar. And thus, Nekusar is banished from eternity (or to the command zone)

In other words does this really help for counters? I don't know if I can bank on that. But besides that, I really also don't think the control players in my groups would allow any of that f*ckery and I'd be out 6 mana. haha

Gilded Drake is hard not to auto include in blue. SO much value. 1) with the amount of Treachery and other players dropping Gilded Drake (why did I ever show them that card) half the time (literally) I'll use it to get my own commander back haha. BUT say all is well and I have my commander, or I have my notion thief and I decide I don't want to be defensive with the GD, for two mana I can not only shut down their commander but abuse it myself??? Mega value for I just really don't see how I can remove it for these reasons.

In regards to Overburden it's part of acknowledging my play group. Half the people I'm up against this card will crushhhh them.. or at the very least draw out a counter for which is also not bad. In particular it'll crush Ryan with Momir Vig, Simic Visionary and chris with Edric, Spymaster of Trest and with his Azami, Lady of Scrolls deck and hell even Kevin with Brago, King Eternal... A lot of creatures are put into play with these decks. Bouncing a land will break all of their balls and I will take great joy hahaha

I've considered more copy spell trickery, but really having trouble taking anything out without majorly altering what's been built here. I do want to have some uniqueness in it, and in play tests it's been quite powerful already. Red is just splashed so far, so the more red I add the more I have to consider altering land distribution (or being bound to only one red spell or one blue or one black because I don't have enough coloured mana to accommodate). Copying instants and sorceries seems really fun to me, and very versatile and powerful. If these next play tests don't prove strong enough, this will be in my consideration for the next update. :)

I'd like to check your deck out. Got a link?

Thanks brother, any other thoughts you have or continuation on this discussion is appreciated.

June 1, 2017 11:53 a.m.

GeneralTzu says... #15

That said themysterypoop and Entrei yeah even 1 wheel with Hive Mind would likely be an auto kill.. i highly doubt it wouldn't get countered. ahh... I might have to try it to see if I can get away with it just for the wheels. If so it'd be ballin' I just highly suspect it'll get canned and since the damage dealt here is pretty intense anyways, doubling down on infect or adding back Megrim or something might just be more efficient. Definitely need to side board Erebos, God of the Dead for any life gain meta's.

June 1, 2017 12:01 p.m.

Entrei says... #16

My deck is

Politics Schmolitics

Commander / EDH* Entrei



June 1, 2017 12:04 p.m.

GeneralTzu says... #17

Entrei Awesome, just upvoted ;)

Definitely different approaches. I dig yours! Also.. never even knew of Bitter Ordeal seems nasty after a wipe.. especially knowing how much tutoring there is in my group. I'd love to run that.

June 1, 2017 12:16 p.m.

Ok so, I've play tested this deck about 4 times now. I'm not sure how fast the other decks you play with go but I'm averaging an uncontested win by turn 8 maybe add a few turns here or there and im starting to think that Consecrated Sphinx is too slow. Opinion?

June 1, 2017 1:52 p.m.

GeneralTzu says... #19

themysterypoop It's been on my radar. That is, whether Consecrated Sphinx is too high on the curve. The card draw is so sexy. Having a flying blocker (or attacker) is alluring. But (as with many high CC) it may have to be chopped for faster/more efficiency. Hmm.. I wonder what the best swap out would be. Might even consider dropping the Cyclonic Rift as well (since i'd only want to use it normally at overload. I'm thinking more ramp? Damage dealers? Tutors? or more card draw...

What do you think? Thanks for play testing.

So with my group, like I said, there was a time - early into competitive- where decks would go off and be consistent turn 4-5 wins. And I could gear this deck for that. BUT then the disruption/stax/control started to become much more present. SO the decks that were meant to go off that fast would get key components shut down and have difficulty going into a more mid-range game. Now turn 6-9 is more frequent and occasionally even longer once you start to add mega board wipes, land fckery etc. This is gearing/aiming to disrupt my opponents fckery and looking for a turn 6-8 win preferably. BUT of course fully capable and strong in later games if need be.

June 1, 2017 3:28 p.m.

GeneralTzu says... #20

themysterypoop One thing to note with playtests on here is it won't show the true effect. For example the last playtest I tried I had both Mystic Remora and Rhystic Study out early.. so it's hard with cards like that to determine exactly how effective those would be without opponents in front of me.

June 1, 2017 3:33 p.m.

Im pulling the deck onto xmage, im going to play around with it a little bit.

June 1, 2017 9:26 p.m.

GeneralTzu says... #22

themysterypoop played 3 rounds last night with an earlier version (maybe 6 cards) 2/3 wins. It faired well

June 2, 2017 11:25 a.m.

Sphinx's Tutelage and Jace's Erasure get silly with wheel effects. I have a similar deck I will post when I have a chance but the idea is pretty similar. The big difference seems to be the way I go about dealing damage. I run all the same outlets and a few extra like Megrim and Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind as well as lots of ways to mill a library out. A few wheel effects and then a Psychic Spiral can remove an opponent that has drawn too many cards on their own.

June 14, 2017 10:16 a.m.

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Compare to inventory
Date added 6 months
Last updated 5 months
Exclude colors WG
Splash colors R

This deck is Commander / EDH legal.

Cards 100
Avg. CMC 2.85
Tokens 3/3 Frog Lizard, 2/2 Zombie
Folders 5c, EDH, Xmage
Top rank #24 on 2017-06-22
Based on
Views 3073

Revision 12 See all

5 months ago)

-1 Aetherflux Reservoir main
+1 Black Sun's Zenith main
-1 Land Equilibrium main
+1 Fellwar Stone main
+1 Chrome Mox main
-1 Glen Elendra Archmage main
-1 Vandalblast main
+1 Bribery main
-1 Liliana's Caress main
+1 Baral's Expertise main
+1 Aetherflux Reservoir side
+1 Vandalblast side