Enchantment — Aura
Enchanted land has "Tap: Counter target spell unless its controller pays (1)."
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|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Sunken Field Discussion
7 months ago
Modern Horizons added few cards worth looking at and testing. Currently looking to get a foil Hall of Heliod's Generosity , which is going to be an auto-include. Also excited for On Thin Ice . Always wanted to run Chained to the Rocks in the deck since its mana cost is so aggressive, but the extremely low Mountain count made it so unreliable it was not worth it. Hopefully the ability to run snow lands makes On Thin Ice much more playable. I wish Marit Lage's Slumber was easier to shove in the deck as a spicy wincon, but there are not enough non-basic snow permanents to bother.
That being said. It's time for my rebuttal.
First of all, I don't see how the way I've constructed my deck couldn't be described as "min-max". I've minimized the number of non-permanent spells and maximized the number of enchantments.
My mana-base has proven itself not to be a problem from the times I played. I don't remember a time where I was starved for any one color of mana before. Admittedly many of the lands enter tapped, but my meta isn't cut-throat where that's a problem. That being said, the manlands might get cut soon. They were a product of the meta at the time and weren't all that relevant.
Sandwurm Convergence was an include due to the abundance of dragon and Kaalia decks in my meta. The 5/5 is hard to attack into as well. You'd be surprised the amount of times being unable to be attacked by fliers has mattered. Mind's Dilation can be hit or miss. Ripping a land does suck. If Mind's Dilation hits removal, I can probably cast it on something, otherwise the board's probably looking pretty empty. Hitting a counterspell off of Mind's Dilation can be used to counter the spell that triggered it. As far as the hondens are concerned, the only one that's bad outright by itself is the white one . Players run cards like Phyrexian Arena and Bitterblossom for incremental advantage all the time.
As far as the counter-enchantments, it's just a part of the stipulation I've created for the deck. The alternative I could do for myself is just cut the counterspell themed enchantments altogether and focus more on resolved threats and other effects that interact with the opponent (i.e. Rule of Law and Spirit of the Labyrinth ). Admittedly, I've thought about cutting Sunken Field for Counterbalance .
"Generally, when Hive Mind is out, players tend to refrain from casting instants and sorceries because giving opponents an advantage is bad, and removal can be used against the caster. Occasionally players are willing to ignore those downsides and you will get free card advantage and removal. At it's worst, your opponents all naturalize you." That being said, the "all the removal will be used against you" becomes a non-issue if Sterling Grove and/or Privileged Position are out.
The wincon for the deck is overwhelmingly out-valuing the opponents with card advantage, then dumping mana into Helix Pinnacle . I have added Sigil of the Empty Throne and Opalescence as additional wincons, although Opalescence will likely get cut for something else. I've never liked that it and Starfield of Nyx turn the hard-to-remove enchantments into easy-to-remove creatures.
7 months ago
I'm assuming you:
- don't want to combo out
- want to keep a small budget
- your primary wincon is Approach of the Second Sun
- your secondary wincon is Simic Ascendancy
- nothing from the last two sets
Route 1) Stength Draw with Worse Creature Tempo
Cut cards that are good tempo plays but otherwise don't help you win by drawing cards. The idea is that you draw into Approach of the Second Sun , cast it, and then trigger your draw abilities to be able to cast it again very quickly. I assume this deck isn't trying to be super competitive. I added a little recursion for toolbox, while still being group hug.
- Cloud of Faeries
- Icatian Moneychanger
- Horizon Chimera
- Safehold Elite
- Vernadi Shieldmate
- Serra's Blessing
- Slow Motion
- Sunken Field
- Ajani, the Greathearted
- Mind Games
- Dakra Mystic
- Nullmage Advocate
- Pulsemage Advocate
- Spurnmage Advocate
- Veteran Explorer
- Windreader Sphinx
- Lore Broker
- Temple Bell
- Woodvine Elemental
Side Note: I really don't like Sunscorch Regent but I get why he's in the deck as part of a wincon. I just feel Toothy, Imaginary Friend and Pir, Imaginative Rascal are very similar and provide much more to the deck in an obvious way, but they cost $8 as a pair so I didn't want to formally recommend them.
8 months ago
I love to min-max my deck building.
_However, I feel like the consistent card-draw stapled to her would make the deck too powerful and consistent. _
Estrid, the Masked is too good. There, I said it.
having a tutor in the command zone tends to make the games too consistent and predictable;
The second stipulation is that the deck is tuned for Primal Surge . With only 6 instant and sorceries in the deck including the surge itself, you should (approximately) get about 20 cards off of each Primal Surge. Since 1-card wincons are incredibly uninteresting as far as I'm concerned, I don't think the deck will reach a point where Primal Surge is the only instant or sorcery.
Probably the best card draw in the deck. Perhaps too good.
The amount of mana this card can produce for one mana can become unfair. Perhaps this should only be in cEDH.
I refuse to build 0 instant/sorcery Primal Surge . The idea of making it a 1-card wincon is uneventful to me. I'd much rather have the drama and variance of not knowing how many cards (or which cards) I am going to hit.
I don't think min-maxing means what you think it means. Intentionally not using cards because they are good or not building your deck a certain way because its too reliable for winning is the exact opposite of min-maxing. I will never understand the aversion of new players to winning, but I will review your deck in good faith nonetheless.
First, your land usage is definitely not optimal. You correctly identified the usefulness of fetches and duals for 4 color decks, but you chose not to run them (they are $$$ in real life dollars, so understandable). Regardless, you should prioritize lands that 1. Enter untapped and 2. Give access to the colors you need. A large number of your lands fail this metric.
Second, you run a number of cards that are 1. Expensive to cast and 2. Don't do much for the mana cost. Specifically, I am looking at Sandwurm Convergence Mind's Dilation , and all the Hondens. Sandwurm convergence is an underwhelming effect for a whopping 8 mana, stopping flyers is negligible because most EDH decks are built to win by combo. The 5/5 at your end step is nice, but the two effects combined are not worth the investment of 8 mana. Mind's Dilation is similarly heavy to cast at 7, but is even less worthwhile because it requires your opponents to do something before it does anything for you. You also aren't guaranteed to get value from it, because opponents can hit lands, they can hit spells you can't use (counterspells and removal come to mind). The hondens are bad because they require a heavy investment of mana and cards to start producing anything worthwhile. They also rob you of 4 deck slots that could go towards something more productive for winning. You are never going to get all 4 of the Hondens onto the board in a timely manner because your ramp cards are so low quality and you have almost no card tutors, plus slow and passive draws. Also no, 4 Hondens on turn 10 is not good.
Your interaction is. . . bad. Sunken Field will only work on bad players. Comboing it with untap effects would be interesting, but right now its just a very very very weak and predictable counterspell. You know how you are singing the praises of Telepathy ? You are giving your opponents the same information about your disruption while gaining no extra benefits from having it be in that form. Its also costs you 3 mana to use it the first time (2 to cast, and 1 more from tapping the land it enchants), meanwhile there are a whole host of 2 and 3 mana counterspells that are guaranteed to work. (even Cancel is better) Lilting Refrain is also very bad for very similar reasons. On top of telegraphing your play, it also can't counter a spell until a turn after you play it. It most likely won't be able to counter a spell until two or three turns after you play it. If you ran some recursion effects or proliferate effects, it might be salvageable, but currently its just really bad. Declaration of Naught is pretty bad too, its reusable against commanders, but its also costing you to counter one spell. Your only hand peek is Telepathy , and you run no blink effects to reset Declaration to abuse it.
I'm very confused by your Primal Surge choices. Designing your deck around Primal Surge working to not its full potential is just astonishing. Why even include it at all? Especially since you can actually lose from casting it, due to the nature of many enchantress effects that do not specify the word may for those draws. Casting a 10 mana spell should guarantee you are going to win, but it doesn't in this deck.
I feel similarly about Hive Mind . The potential for this card blowing up in your face is so high. Ideally, you pair this card with instants and sorceries that your opponents wouldn't want to cast at all. I understand you run a small instant/sorcery count, but that once again means you're relying on an opponent to help you get to your own win, otherwise you just wasted 6 mana on a card that does nothing with the other 98 cards you put in the deck. This card is never going to benefit you when you are ahead, it just means any piece of removal played becomes 3 pieces of removal against your board state.
Any cards you run with the words "gain life" on them should go. Also, how does this deck even win? Creature swings? Honden of Infinite Rage and the other Hondens then take 30 turns? Sandwurm Convergence then take 10 turns? Cast Primal Surge for half your deck then pass?
10 months ago
for your consideration
1 year ago
So I'm brewing a deck, and yes it is the first deck that came to mind when I saw her, to abuse Estrid.
The idea is simple, enchant all your lands and ramp into oblivion...
So far here are all the cards that I'm including to enchant lands...
- Fertile Ground
- Dawn's Reflection
- Elvish Guidance
- Verdant Haven
- Market Festival
- Wild Growth
- Gift of Paradise
- New Horizons
- Nylea's Presence
- Sheltered Aerie
- Squirrel Nest
- Spawning Grounds
- Unbridled Growth
- Urban Burgeoning
- Sunken Field
- Weirding Wood
Now do i go full blown awkward and turn all my lands into dudes to win or do I just ramp into eldrazi or some crazy combo wincon?
2 years ago
Sunken Field? It can be a cheeky thing to keep you opponents from tapping out to cast, or a way to counter your own things
2 years ago
@Squire1 UR isn't particularly good at answering threats once they're on the board, and playing draw-go with Jhoira seems fine. You can just suspend your haymakers on an opponent's end step if you didn't need to counter anything, and most of your threats are going to be so powerful that they won't need much to protect them.
@NickyBolas Here's a list of soft counters I think are reasonable in EDH:
- Stubborn Denial
- Sunken Field
- Logic Knot
- Mana Confluence
- Disruptive Student
- Patron Wizard
- Disruptive Pitmage
- Sage's Dousing
- Temur Charm
My problem with Mental Misstep is that I always feel relieved to see a target for it, which usually indicates that the answer is too narrow.
3 years ago
I would recommend running Grand Arbiter Augustin IV in your deck to cut your cost while increasing every1 else (school budgeting theme). Copy Enchantment would be nice as addition since everything will be an enchantment. Sunken Field for taxing counter since you got some tax scheme going here. Rhystic Study for more taxing and goes well with the theme and gets you free card draw. Aura of Silence would just be straight up savage to your opponent if you make everything an enchantment also fits the theme. Sun Titan to get some of your 3 mana or less enchantment and general or other permanents that hit the grave. Erratic Portal kind of the escape route also great utility to save your creature or use for defense against your opponent. Crystal Shard for same purpose as erratic portal and why are your not running a Azorius Signet?