|Commander / EDH||Legal|
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|Duel Decks: Ajani vs. Nicol Bolas (DDH)||Uncommon|
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Rise / Fall
Return target creature card in a graveyard and target creature on the battlefield to their owners' hands.
Target player reveals two cards at random from his or her hand, then discards each nonland card revealed this way.
Rise / Fall Discussion
4 months ago
I have no idea how to play with the cycle lands. This deck takes so much life from its mana that I'm not planning on running cycle lands in here. In fact, I'm probably not going to play this deck anymore once Modern Horizons is legal. I'm going to drop back to some 3 color deck featuring Force of Negation . Either Grixis or Esper or something green. Probably Grixis.
Rise / Fall is a pet card of mine. It tends to hit lands and feel bad, but I've also done some sick lines with the Rise half of it. Such janky durdly card advatage.
8 months ago
There are a few cards that may be worth considering for this deck Rise / Fall , Plaguecrafter , Mulldrifter , Noxious Gearhulk , Dictate of Erebos , Shriekmaw , Whip of Erebos , and Dig Through Time .
10 months ago
Did you see my grixis version linked in the Discussion? Rise / Fall (which has both bounce and discard) and Snapcaster Mage are probably the biggest benefits of blue. Thing in the Ice Flip might be good. The other options seem ok, not great. We should probably only play bounce spells that are already great in their own right. We only have 4 copies of Waste Not. Having Waste Not AND discard along with our bounce spell is a 3-card combo that not only doesn't win the game, it only gives slight card advantage.
I wouldn't ever play Leyline of Anticipation unless it serves as a combo piece. Does adding the text "cast as though it had flash, discard a random card in your hand (to play Leyline)" make Thoughtseize better?
11 months ago
11 months ago
Here is a few cards you could consider for this deck Connive / Concoct, Breaking / Entering, Rise / Fall, Dig Through Time, Murderous Cut, Mental Note, Thought Scour, Torrential Gearhulk, Rakdos's Return, and Cruel Ultimatum.
11 months ago
I actually play this pair. They work well together. Here is a few cards that have served me well and I think they will do the same for you Twilight Prophet, Connive / Concoct, Shriekmaw, Mulldrifter, Deep-Sea Kraken, Bloodsworn Steward, Whip of Erebos, Breaking / Entering, Rise / Fall, Torrential Gearhulk, Stunt Double, Ancient Stone Idol, and Price of Fame.
Oh and important ruling you should know about Split cards. While they're on the stack, only the half you're casting is counted for CMC. However, when they're anywhere else and you need to figure out what the CMC is, you go by the total between both halves.
This matters for cards like Twilight Prophet and Combustible Gearhulk which I also suggest you run.
1 year ago
My current idea is that Grixis has a lot of powerful cards available - Search for Azcanta Flip, Young Pyromancer, Snapcaster Mage, Serum Visions, Kolaghan's Command, Tasigur, the Golden Fang - it's these power cards that I want to capitalize on. Delver of Secrets Flip has won me plenty of games, but it's done nothing in plenty too. Mana Leak and Spell Snare are very polarized for when they're good - but so is Search for Azcanta Flip, to some extent. Cryptic Command is a very good card, but it's not what I want to play. 4-drops get punished too much in my opinion. Especially if I want to go under the opposing Cryptic decks, which also have Teferi. Inquisition of Kozilek and Thoughtseize are pretty good right now. Especially going turn 1 Inquisition into turn 2 Pyromancer. Mardu Pyromancer appreciates the power of such a line of play, but they can't follow it up with multiple cantrips on turn 3.
Right now I play Delver of Secrets Flip because the shell that supports it is really good. But I can't play a true Delver deck without another playable turn 1 creature. Legacy RUG and Grixis delver decks function because they can (or could) play Nimble Mongoose or Deathrite Shaman alongside Delver, which made the turn 1 tempo creature plan a lot more viable. Modern Big Zoo, D&T in Modern and Legacy, and Legacy Delver decks all know that you need a minimum of 8 or 9 turn 1 plays to reliably have one to curve out with and support an aggressive game plan. 9 is optimal which is why Zoo decks used to play 1 Birds of Paradise alongside their 4 Noble Hierarch and 4 Wild Nacatl. D&T in modern frequently plays 1 Weathered Wayfarer as the 9th turn 1 play. But when the other 1-drop options aren't viable enough, only 8 1-drops is fine, as seen in Legacy's D&T and Delver decks. But in modern I still haven't found a playable turn 1 aggressive card to pair with Delver of Secrets. Serum Visions and Thoughtseize don't count - the card needs to advance my board state.
I compensate for my lack of another creature by playing control with 4 hamfisted Delvers and a few things to support them, but when the deck needs aggression against Tron it doesn't find it enough, and when this deck without delvers could be blanking removal spells in the Mardu Pyromancer opponent's hand, I simply cast my Delvers into certain doom when I have the mana to spare.
There are some times, like vs Affinity or a Primeval Titan deck, that Delver of Secrets is really good even when cast after turn 1. Unfortunately there are relatively few decks where this is consistently the case.
I want to make a good Delver of Secrets deck, but after a summer of playing the card I'm unconvinced that I'm doing it correctly. Especially because of how good the card is in Legacy. Part of the difference is that I can cast Delver turn 1 in Legacy and most of the time I'll be able to attack with it at least a few times before it dies, if the opponent is playing removal spells at all. And if it does die, well, at least I can stay in the game with Stoneforge Mystic and because I have quality counters, I'm not getting locked out of the game by overwhelming board state disadvantage. But this is modern, not legacy.
Even though I now have Search for Azcanta Flip, I'm not convinced I want to play Delver of Secrets Flip alongside them. In this meta Young Pyromancer is an insane card. He dies hard to things like Terminus, which I have seen a lot of copies of recently. But if I need a few turns to get my grind engine on, then Pyromancer can do it. He can make chump blockers for that Gurmag Angler crashing in on me.
I think there are several powerful lines of play that opponents have that Grixis needs to be able to handle. I've seen Bloodbraid Elf cascade into Anger of the Gods in Ponza a few times - this is scary because discard spells aren't reliable to beat it. And control decks have Terminus, and discard spells can't stop it if it's Miracled. Counterspells are the only way to tempo out of such scenarios. The other option is to go over with bigger finishers, but this won't work against opposing Control decks.
My point is that both counterspells and discard spells have their merits and I feel naked when I play one but not the other. I want to find a way to play lands and cantrips and creatures and counterspells and discard spells and kill spells all in the same grixis deck. And I want more than just 2 Inquisition or 2 Thoughtseize - I want Rise // Fall. The card is insane. When it starts winning me games like crazy I'll come back and say I told you so.
Identifying the counterspells worth playing is no easy task. I really want original and powerful Counterspell. Nothing else feels adequate. Mana Leak can't counter Path to Exile when it matters the most. Dispel can't counter Anger of the Gods or Scapeshift. Spell Pierce is bad after turn 3. Logic Knot competes with Tasigur and Snapcaster for the graveyard. I think Mana Leak is still the best for what I'm trying to do, but it feels a little bad that I can't play Young Pyromancer with protection up. Playing Pyro with a Thought Scour or immediate Serum Visions is good enough for the silver medal.
Such a deck definitely needs 20-22 lands. No more, no less. I want enough discard spells that I can reliably play turn 1 discard into turn 2 pyro. At least 6 1-drops, and I probably won't have room for more. And 1 or 2 Rise // Fall to round it out. I want enough countermagic that the opponent has to respect it, but just 4 Mana Leak is probably enough for the mainboard. For creatures, 4 Snapcaster Mage is obvious. I think I want 4 Young Pyromancer until I get any indication that I shouldn't. Tasigur and Gurmag Angler have won so many games for me. I don't think I can play with less than 4 in combination of the 2. The obvious 8 cantrips. Finally, 2 Search for Azcanta Flip. The removal package will have to be treated separately and will depend on space, but Terminate is a card I have missed since I started playing less than 4 copies. I'm going back up to 4 Terminate and 0 Fatal Push.
The biggest challenge will be fitting all of the cards into the deck. There are a lot of things it is trying to do. I think I listed a 70 card deck. But I think such a deck has potential. Thoughts?
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