|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Printings View all
|Ninth Edition (9ED)||Rare|
|Ninth Edition Foreign Black Border (9EDFBB)||Rare|
|Eighth Edition (8ED)||Rare|
|Seventh Edition (7ED)||Rare|
|Urza's Saga (USG)||Rare|
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Choose a color. Target player reveals his or her hand and discards all cards of that color.
5 months ago
Cool deck man! Looks like you're into discard quite a bit here. Definitely wouldn't want to mess with what you like, but I can absolutely name a few cards for mono black that are better when graveyards are huge. Here are a few in no particular order. All of these should be on the cheaper end of the spectrum.
Nyxathid , Nighthowler , Hypnotic Specter , Liliana's Reaver , Shrieking Affliction , Persecute , and Isochron Scepter . That last one is a bit steeper, but it would let you reuse instant and sorcery cards for even more constant discarding.
Good luck with the building!
7 months ago
To be honest, you can actually cut Infernal Darkness, and no you are not 'forced' to use the other enchantments or creatures. Sundial is just bad in this type of deck and can be cut immediately.
What a combo is when you use two cards that synergize to get a result that more than what the cards itself can do. An infinite combo is when two cards are used in conjunction to produce an effect that can loop itself thus repeating the result infinite times.
Contamination and Sundial has no synergy together, it essentially locks you down as well since your ending your turn and not allowing yourself to do any more interaction, you have to be able to break parity when you play cards. Ophiomancer is great and I would add that in. Same thing how Painful Quandary can work while taxing them. Additionally you would use cards like Mindtwist, Sudden Spoiling, Plaguecrafter, Mutilate, Syphon Mind, Persecute, Ob Nixilis, Unshackled, Praetor's Grasp, Sadistic Sacrament.
Plus they would fit your "Cruel" Theme :P
8 months ago
Alright, awesome! I don't know your meta, so let me know if these suggestions aren't right for you and your playgroup(s).
First off, this is straight up Midrange. A couple counters and removal/control magic cards doesn't make it control.
Secondly, I would focus first on your mana base. The distribution of your lands will depend on the end result of the deck, as in how many black/blue/white symbols are on the card adn how early they appear. Some cheaper lands for esper are Fetid Pools , Irrigated Farmland , Sunken Hollow , and Prairie Stream . These are great choices as they have the basic land types and are able to be fetched with fetchlands, and the cycle effect on the first too can be really hand late game. I'd go with one or the other though, and those also turn on lands like Isolated Chapel , Glacial Fortress , and Drowned Catacomb . If your group plays lands that can be troublesome, cards like Ghost Quarter and Field of Ruin are some great ones that aren't straight up land destruction. I would heavily suggest Field of Ruin over Ghost Quarter though, as it doesn't set YOU back on mana. I would also strongly recommend playing at least 8 basic land cards and at least 25 lands with the amount of high cost cards you have as well.
This kind of deck really does not need Expedition Map , and Elixir of Immortality is really only good if there is an opponent on mill, there are better options if you need life gain. Cards like Wall of Omens , Ruin Raider , Twilight Prophet , Dusk Legion Zealot , Phyrexian Rager , Thassa, God of the Sea or Kefnet the Mindful are all great creatures that can help you draw cards and lands if needed. Spells like Preordain , Serum Visions , Impulse , Painful Truths , Discovery / Dispersal (which can act as removal as well, if need be), and Esper Charm are all well and dandy. If you choose to run any of these, with the kind of deck you're on, I would recommend choosing one of the 1 or 2 cost ones and running four, then run two copies of the 3-cost ones at max.
As for your enchantments, Sorin, Solemn Visitor , Sorin, Lord of Innistrad , or Elspeth, Sun's Champion , and Elspeth, Knight-Errant would all be better than True Conviction as they come down much faster (except Sun's Champion), are far easier to cast in a 3-color deck (W-Bla is much easier than WWW), they also give you creatures to flood the board.
The problem with Control Magic , is that it is far easier to get around than regular removal, but if you're adamant on stealing your opponent's toys, Entrancing Melody , Exert Influence for smaller creatures and Connive / Concoct which can double as rebuying a dead creature of yours, or Confiscation Coup paired with cards like Glimmer of Genius , Glint-Sleeve Siphoner , and Aether Hub . I recommend this because Control Magic can be destroyed by enchantment destruction effects adn let your opponent get their things back, especially if you don't have Privileged Position out, speaking of which
I wouldn't run it. Run more counterspells in its place. You don't want to broadcast the whole 'hit me, i'm setting up a hexproof Exquisite-Sanguine combo' and give them targets for their removal. You need to slam those things down and then protect them. Cryptic Command is amazing, and 3 is good enough. Depending on how your playgroup does with counterspells, og Counterspell , Mana Leak , Supreme Will , Ojutai's Command , Silumgar's Command , Negate , Essence Scatter , and Dissolve are all good. Arcane Denial if you want to be nice about it. You want to make them spend the mana on their way to answer your threats and then Dash Hopes (don't play that one, it's funny but not good). With Counterspells, you generally want to spend less mana on it than what you're countering, and they're better in multiplayer games than discard.
If you're playing 1v1 matches, you could go with discard effects over counterspells, but choose one or both. Cards like Duress , Thought Erasure , Divest , Harsh Scrutiny , Persecute , Arterial Flow (bonus points if you're playing with Twilight Prophet and friends with this one), Inquisition of Kozilek , Thoughtseize , Castigate , Blackmail , and Hymn to Tourach . You also have Kitesail Freebooter , Tidehollow Sculler , and Brain Maggot . From what you said with liking how your creatures take control, this is the route I would recommend for you, especially Kitesail Freebooters and Thought Erasures since one is a creature and the other can help fix your next draw step.
Once again, run Counterspells or Discard, and preferably counters in multiplayer. The simple reasoning is with discard you spend mana and resources and they don't spend mana and lose resources, counters you both spend mana and resources with you, preferably, spending less mana and quality of resources, and you don't want to tax your mana and resources doing both.
Don't run Riot Control . Don't do it. Run Eerie Interlude instead of Rootborn Defenses as it will trigger and enter the battlefield effects when your creatures come back and get you advantages that way.
Jace is cool, but run those Sorins and Elspeths I mentioned earlier instead, they fit better in your kind of deck.
Some way better creatures for you are Dragonlord Silumgar , Dragonlord Ojutai , Cloudblazer , Restoration Angel , Ravenous Chupacabra , Isareth the Awakener , Vona, Butcher of Magan , Nightveil Predator , Thalia, Heretic Cathar , Hostage Taker , Regal Caracal , Thraben Inspector , Noxious Gearhulk , Torrential Gearhulk , or Cataclysmic Gearhulk . There are so many options out there, and in the end it's your deck so you can make it however you would like. I hope this was at least a little bit of help.
Also, definitely find some room for Swords to Plowshares and Anguished Unmaking . Life is a resource and don't be afraid to spend a little bit or give your opponent some more if it means not letting them win or letting you win.
10 months ago
Solar Flare was an old standard Esper control list based on ramp with signets and the like, and existed around kamigawa-ravnica standard, http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/standard/12799_The_History_of_Solar_Flare.html has more info on the topic, but it ran sweepers, big threats, ramp, recursion, counterspells, card draw, and removal, as any normal control list does.
The main threats Solar Flare ran were Angel of Despair, Meloku the Clouded Mirror, Yosei, the Morning Star, and Kokusho, the Evening Star, and had really cool interactions such as using non-land ramp like Dimir Signet in conunctions with karoos like Azorius Chancery to get mana through Hokori, Dust Drinker and used effects that discard like Sift and Compulsive Research along with Zombify.
Some of the countermagic it ran were along the likes of Mana Leak and Remand, it had sweepers like Wrath of God, and removal ranging from Mortify to Condemn, and even ran discard like Persecute. It ran Clutch of the Undercity as removal, burn, and a tutor for Wrath of God, Persecute, Zombify, Sift, Ivory Mask, and Hokori, Dust Drinker, and made it have extreme versatility.
11 months ago
Thank you for your suggestions.
Back to Basics I am not opposed to this card, if someone manages to pull it off. Relying heavily on nonbasic lands has to come with risks.
Identity Crisis is completely legit, it will ruin someone's day but I am guessing if you target an opponent with it they had something going that needed to be stopped.
Conversion I don't see anyone actually playing this, it is so bad. It could definitely be on this list.
Do you mean Persecute? Again, I can't imagine anyone actually playing this, but it would match our ban criteria.
This is a group list, so I can't make changes without consulting the founding members. Right now the card being debated is Paradox Engine.
1 year ago
The Caves of Koilos are an important part of the history of Phyrexia, being the location of the portal that brought Yawgmoth to Old Phyrexia in the first place, setting in motion the beginning of the Great Work.
Planar Portal can be expensive to cast and to use, but it can be worth it. If you end up using it, I recommend the Invasion version, due to the flavor text.
Skeletonkey8 has the right idea with Rout. The new art shows Elesh Norn, and the old art shows Phyrexian forces overrunning Benalia, so either version works with your deck's flavor. Life's Finale is another Phyrexian boardwipe. And Damnation is ambiguous enough that it should fit.
Finally, don't forget that the plane of Rath, the Rathi Stronghold, and the Evincars were all part of the Phyrexian war plan. Guys like Volrath, Crovax, Greven, and Vhati all worked for the Phyrexians, so you can include cards featuring/mentioning all that. Of note are Volrath's Stronghold, Hatred (fun with both infect and a lifelink general), Endless Scream (also fun with infect), Reanimate, Vhati il-Dal (fun with -1/-1 counters), Tortured Existence, and the original printings of Reflecting Pool and Propaganda.
(Wow, this post ended up longer than I originally intended it to be.)
1 year ago
Also, I doubt that this could be an option but I know an interesting card that can synergise well with this deck.
This Momentary Blink can actually be a counterspell through Torrential Gearhulk, if you choose Unwind or Rewind, it actually untaps more lands than you've used. That's very helpful to cast a full powered Sphinx's Revelation at your opponent's endphase.
I'm new here so let me just relink you correctly my decklist :
Things I added :
Wrexial, the Risen Deep (not very strong but cool card)
2 years ago
I've always wanted to build a discard deck in EDH: I created a fun and functional discard deck in Legacy, and I've always wanted to repeat that in my favorite format, EDH.
The problem is that EDH is a singleton format, and because I can't have four Persecutes in my deck, Liliana's Specter seems like a better choice because it is consistently easier to recur than Persecute, so I naturally gravitated toward building a discard deck with a graveyard sub-theme, but I can't seem to recur Black Cat often enough to abuse it, so I'm almost ready to throw in the towel, since the alterations to this budget deck are starting to make it more expensive than I would prefer, and I'm beginning to become a bit disillusioned with it. lol
Anyhow, I don't expect you to expend all your time and energy in correcting every single issue with my deck: I would simply appreciate any amount of advice, no matter how minimal it may be. I've put a lot of time into researching this deck, and I don't seem to be getting much traction, so it seemed like it would be a good idea to ask someone who has more experience with recursion than me.
Four main reasons I want to use this commander:
His cmc cost is very low.
He can recur himself from the graveyard.
He's a sac outlet, and because of his ability to self-recur, he's the only sac outlet I really need.
How this deck is supposed to work:
I play a lot of low cmc creature spells that cause my opponents to discard when my creatures enter the battlefield or are sacrificed, and I repeat this process over and over again until they have nothing left to answer with.
In the process of saccing all these creatures, I gradually wear down my opponents' life totals.
The problems are as follows:
This deck is intended to be a fast aggro deck because I don't have enough defensive measures to keep myself alive if the game is prolonged. Forcing my opponents to discard is supposed to protect me, whilst my opponents gradually die. I also have creature/artifact removal to assist with player suppression, and honestly, it feels more effective than my subpar discard engine.
Even though I have ten recursion cards and ten card draw/tutor cards, my hand is never as full as it should be.
Even with a combined total of 15 mana rocks and land tutors, Tymaret, the Murder King's mana-activated abilities are still cost prohibitive and just don't do enough. There has to be a way to enhance what he does and/or get around the activation costs.
Considering that my overall cmc cost is actually pretty low and the fact that I have decent ramp for my colors, it's still a huge mana investment to play creatures, sac them and recur them. There has to be a way to cheat them into play, get around Tymaret's recursion costs, and/or cheat the recursion costs.
My discard engine is so abysmal that the only thing I can rely on is hoping that no one kills me before I play Sorin Markov and sac five creatures, and that's obviously a terrible strategy. My goal is to suppress my opponents by making them discard whilst gradually wearing down their life totals, but it just doesn't work that way in practice.
Ultimately, this deck needs to be faster and more efficient when it comes to discarding and dealing damage.
Here's the link to my deck: Tymaret, the Discard King
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