Obelisk of Esper
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Obelisk of Esper Discussion
2 months ago
2 months ago
Cards I would cut/replacement:
For Win conditions:
Really up to you tbh. But i think the following options synergize well with your deck.
1) Artifact Win Cons:
Lattice + Forge + Nevi disk. (or really any destroy all artifact)
- If this is the route your pursue. Invest is artifact tutors like Fabricate, Treasure Mage, Arcum Dagsson, etc...
2) Bounce win con
This one is a bit tricky, but can be done.
This usually revolves on getting ahead with mana rocks or using trickery.
3) Cloning / stealing wincons / game ending spells
4) Entering the infinte.
Any win con that works with Enter the Infinite.
Infinite mana or omniscience is a play your deck
or even just a Psychosis Crawler.
- You might have to make more room for these win conditions. but it at least provides you with options assuming that your opponents don't have much to work with
8 months ago
Another measure worth considering is versatility. Obelisk of Esper takes three turns to pay for itself, like Chromatic Lantern. The Obelisk, though, offers a more limited selection of mana, and the Lantern has an additional benefit.
Also, the deck it's going into matters. In a vacuum, I would consider Chromatic Lantern and Darksteel Ingot to be roughly equivalent. If I was putting together a deck with Plague Boiler and Pernicious Deed, the Ingot looks much better. If I was building a 3-5 color deck, I would lean toward the Lantern.
8 months ago
Why run Thopter Assembly without Time Sieve to combo? Ashnod's Altar is a duplichtenstein combo piece with Nim Deathmantle. And if you use that combo with your general you don't need the Bitter Ordeal. You make infinite dudes and use some to float a bunch of mana and then sac a bunch more to bolt everyone to death. Commander's Sphere is strictly better than Obelisk of Esper because it taps for red and can can trip to dodge removal. Last I'm not a huge fan of a lot of colorless lands in a four color deck, especially the one without green. Having all ten fetches, your duals, most of your shocks, and maybe even Mana Confluence are all gonna get you the consistency you want in a landbase. Also just a personal thing but I hate karoo lands like Azorius Chancery (one too many times of a guy playing Acidic Slime on an open board). Hope some of my recommendations help and sorry if some of them are outside your budget, but I saw the OG duals and thought this guy knows how to deck. +1!
9 months ago
And just some other 'good stuff' cards I'd recommend, Staff of Nin and Well of Ideas. You NEED card draw. And the Staff can easily pick off smaller creatures (as well as killing your own general if need be). Instead of Obelisk of Esper, run Commander's Sphere. You might also want to look into things like Thought Vessel and Thran Dynamo, Hedron Archive or maybe even Gilded Lotus for more ramp.
You also might want to think about running fewer of the dual lands that come in tapped, and just run more basics. There are also ones like Sunken Hollow and Prairie Stream, Glacial Fortress and Drowned Catacomb. Or, if you're going to run so many ETB tapped lands, look to Amulet of Vigor. Caged Sun and Gauntlet of Power are also extremely useful, as is the more pricey Extraplanar Lens which BEGS to be run with Snow-covered lands so it won't affect your opponent's lands (Unless they run snow too, at which point they probably have a lens, and you all get to double dip.)
1 year ago
GobboE, Thanks again for the great advice! I own a metric crapload of the Panorama fetches (Jund Panorama, for instance). Would you recommend those for mana-fixing in this deck? I also own a bunch of each of the Obelisks (Obelisk of Esper, etc). I'm leery of the tri-land sac cards like Geothermal Crevice. They don't seem as optimal but I'm no expert and my M:TG instincts aren't fully developed. I could add Guildgates and the Lifelands but they're all tapped upon entry. I heard one shouldn't have a majority of one's lands be slow but I'm willing to defer to veterans' judgement on the subject. Would you recommend a set of the bounce lands (Rakdos Carnarium, etc)? Banners, cluestones, signets?
I want a Harabaz Druid, for instance, but it won't be in the 1.0 version of the deck for budget reasons but will find its way in quite early on, I'm sure. It's just too good and $6 isn't the end of the world. I mean, I'm scraping together couch change for this month's rent but by the time I build this deck that won't be a thing ;)
The Orchards are on my short-list, Lotus Vale perhaps, Ancient Ziggurat for sure, Gemstone Mine is a little pricey, City of Brass would work well I believe, Unknown Shores seems legit, Mana Confluence is pricey but a candidate, Mirrodin's Core seems okay, Springjack Pasture seems funny but isn't blowing me away, Thran Quarry would be good but it's a little up there in price for me, and likewise for Undiscovered Paradise.
Henge of Ramos seems outdated, Tendo Ice Bridge is too expensive, Reflecting Pool seems like it won't help me much and is expensive to boot, Archaeological Dig seems meh, same for Forsaken City, Rainbow Vale, School of the Unseen, and Tarnished Citadel.
Plenty of fixing rocks out there I suppose. Would you recommend those? Coalition Relic is a no-brainer but out of the initial budget, ditto for Gilded Lotus but more so, Khalni Gem maybe, $Lotus Bloom$, Lotus Blossom on the other hand seems neat, Prophetic Prism seems nice and is cheaper than Mana Prism (but doesn't give a colorless for free), Phyrexian Lens seems okay, Prismatic Lens is cheap, Spectral Searchlight seems okay too, Springleaf Drum might be all right,
Some five-color decks I've seen utilize a lot of Green spells like Dawn's Reflection, Divergent Growth, Fertile Ground, $Food Chain$, Manamorphose, Metamorphosis, Multani's Harmony, Overlaid Terrain, $Prismatic Omen$, Trace of Abundance, Utopia Sprawl, and Utopia Vow. Might be a good idea to include a few, huh.
Such an intricate dance...
Balancing lands vs fetches vs rocks vs spells is tricky! I might have to do some guess-and-check once the deck is build in the meatspace.
The two cards you recommended are excelent for this deck and even my Goblin deck so consider them strongly considered. I was trying to keep all un-owned cards under a dollar for the 1.0 version but those are both cheap and brilliant so if they don't go into the initial build they will be in the very first wave of upgrades. I can't thank you enough for all of your assistance.
DaringApprentice, excellent suggestions. My newb-ass didn't even now about Captain's Claws. Drana's Chosen is dope too. I might leave her out for the initial build and see if I need the beef. Planar Guide is one I hadn't seen before, too. Cheaper than Ghostaway, that's for true.
I initially had all the Lairs in the deck (you may notice they're all in the Maybe list) but I was worried about having too many slow lands. I'll probably buy a set anyway and experiment with them. Thanks for reminding me. Mana-fixing vs slow mana... a hard debate when working with a budget deck! Do y'all think it's worth it? Thanks for your suggestions!
1 year ago
I would cut Obelisk of Esper before Darksteel Ingot. Here are my thoughts: