Never / Return

Legality

Format Legality
Standard Legal
Commander / EDH Legal
Vintage Legal
Legacy Legal
Modern Legal

Printings View all

Set Rarity
Amonkhet Rare

Combos Browse all

Never / Return

Sorcery

Never

Destroy target creature or planeswalker.

Return

Aftermath (Cast this spell only from your graveyard. Then exile it.)

Exile target card from a graveyard. Create a 2/2 black Zombie creature token.

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Never / Return Discussion

multimedia on Energy Elves

3 days ago

Randsome, Walking Ballista is very good with Winding Constrictor and seems like an auto include in a deck using the snake, but if you don't want to get Ballista's then you could use it's slots for anything really, Negate is even an option. Never / Return or Ruinous Path are fine in it's place, but I don't think you really need any more removal main deck, 4x Fatal Push and 3x Grasp of Darkness is enough. Aethersphere Harvester is good at pressuring Planeswalkers. Saying this I would definitely sideboard 1-2x Never or Path as some Planeswalker removal. I would also sideboard 4x Transgress the Mind which can hit any Planeswalker.

Some possible cards you could use in Ballista's place who go with the theme and with the snake are:

If you want to go away from Elves then both Longtusk Cub and Glint-Sleeve Siphoner are excellent energy 2 drops. You could replace Sylvan Advocate and/or Skyrider Elf with any combination of them.

As far as strengths and weaknesses of Sultai and Temur I think it really comes down to which kind of deck you want to play. Even though Sutali has energy I consider it more of a counters deck because the power of Winding Constrictor is in counters not energy. Temur is more of an energy deck that's also using counters, but energy is the main theme. If you like energy play Temur and if you like counters than play Sultai.

Sultai Strengths and Weaknesses:

    Strengths
  • Better manabase having access to 7-8x fast lands that can make green mana.
  • More powerful curve of Winding Constrictor, Rishkar, Peema Renegade and Verdurous Gearhulk. By itself a curve of Constrictor into Rishkar can be game winning.
  • Better sideboard options for Marvel matchups and control matchups. Transgress the Mind and Negate can both stop Marvel. Transgress can hit Torrential Gearhulk.
  • Less reliant on energy if keeping Elves.

  • Weaknesses
  • Constrictor is a huge target for removal and unfortunately the deck very much relies on him to be alive without him the power level drops a lot.
  • Problematic removal options, other than Fatal Push all other removal has double black casting cost. Push is ok, but not great right now in Standard.
  • No cheap removal that exiles the creature it kills.
  • Not as versatile or as many creature options in black.
  • Access to no three mana sweeper that does 3 damage to all creatures. Yahenni's Expertise is as close as it gets.

Temur Strengths and Weaknesses:

    Strengths
  • Can still function without losing a key card in other words there's no Constrictor. Less reliant on a nice curve.
  • More cards make and use energy. The energy theme is front and center.
  • Magma Spray is a very good removal spell right now in Standard.
  • Harnessed Lightning is unconditional creature removal that with energy can kill easier than Fatal Push.
  • Access to three mana 3 damage to all creatures sweepers.
  • Glorybringer adds an additional power level to the top end.

  • Weaknesses
  • Worst manabase having to use reveal lands from Shadows Over Innistrad which can be problematic at times.
  • Worst sideboard options for Marvel and control matchups. Other than Negate and other counterspells.
  • Relies much more on energy to overall function.

In my opinion red is better as the third color for this deck than black right now because of Magma Spray, Harnessed Lightning, Glorybringer and Radiant Flames. These cards do more for the deck than Winding Constrictor, Fatal Push, Grasp of Darkness and Transgress the Mind can. I like the combination of Spray and Harnessed over Push and Grasp because Spray can exile Scrapheap Scrounger and/or Dread Wanderer, especially Scrapheap because he's such a menace in Mardu. Spray also hits a ton of creatures in both Zombies and Mardu making it not just for the recursive creatures.

Creatures that Spray can't kill Harnessed can due to the amount of energy the deck can make. Glorybringer is great at pressuring or killing Planewalkers and gives me another flying threat. Putting counters on Glorybringer is also nasty fun. Flames in combination with Spray is very potent vs Zombies. I've found that I really need a sweeper to consistently beat Zombies because the battlefield can be flooded with them very fast. Red has access to two three mana sweepers that can deal 3 damage to all creatures, Flames and Sweltering Suns. Doing 3 damage is important because of Lord of the Accursed. Black has Yahenni's Expertise which can kill 3 power creatures, but it costs four mana instead of three. Flames can also only do 2 damage to each creature if I only use two different colors of mana to cast it. It's flexible this can be relevant as a one sided board wipe.

Push is a great removal spell, but the strong presence in Standard of both Aetherworks Marvel and Zombies takes it down a notch. Zombies wants you to spend a card to kill a single Zombie this is giving them an advantage. Spray is some what taking away this advantage even though I'm still spending a card to kill a single creature the creature is exiled which is relevant. Marvel plays all three drops except Servant of the Conduit and higher and very few creatures. Push is still excellent in the Mardu Vehicles matchup because it can kill Heart of Kiran, but so can Harnessed.

Thanks for the tips on using the stack. You're right I can't tap Rishkar, Peema Renegade the turn it's played to crew Aethersphere Harvester and then put a counter on Harvester with Rishkar's trigger. I would have to use another creature to first crew Harvester and then play Rishkar. I've been doing this Rishkar and Havester play for a while now and no one has said it's wrong, haha... My mistake is I didn't know that if an ETB trigger has to have a target(s) the target(s) must be declared the moment the trigger goes on the stack. I was declaring targets when the trigger resolved from the stack which is wrong.


Delta-117 on clayperce

4 days ago

I attended 2 game days, I went 3-1 only losing to a control deck, and omg our match (3 rounds) went on for about an hour and twenty minutes! It determined who of the two of us made top 4. I was playing this hybrid delirium/ +1/+1 counters deck with Walking Ballista, Winding Constrictor etc.

I didn't get all of my cards that I had ordered to replace my former delirium cards all on time so I had to play some different choices, which included things like a Ulvenwald Hydra (Could fetch a Blighted Fen for a last-resort answer to an Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger which my deck had a lack of answers for if cast game 1), a Liliana, the Last Hope (as a 1x of since I sold 3/4 of mine), 1x Rhonas the Indomitable, a 1x Liliana, Death's Majesty (which I have to add is a lot of fun with things like Noxious Gearhulk and Verdurous Gearhulk, among a few other things because I was lacking cards.

It was back and forth us asking how many cards the other had in hand because he had Thought-Knot Seers and Harsh Scrutiny, while I had a playset of Transgress the Minds after sideboarding, to him constantly exiling my Kalitas, Traitor of Ghets, Verdurous Gearhulk (only had 2/4 unfortunately for gameday the other 2 were still in the mail) with Declaration in Stones, Stasis Snares and Anguished Unmakings.

Then if that was not enough to slow our matches down, he was playing Authority of the Consuls after sideboarding, as well as Kambal, Consul of Allocation to punish me and all my removal (Had a playset of Fatal Pushes, 3 Never / Returns, and 2 Grasp of Darkness to gain lots of life as well of course from 3x Noxious Gearhulk which he was using on things like my Mindwrack Demon, Verdurous Gearhulk, Ishkanah, Grafwidow among others... I was using 2x Noxious Gearhulk (one main/one side) myself too which was pretty funny. Beyond that he was stealing my stuff with mainboard Gonti, Lord of Luxurys of which he had I think 2-3 of and he managed to beat me with one of my own Kalitas, Traitor of Ghets. Also 2x Demon of Dark Schemes he had which he also used t recur things, but mainly his own, although he did at times kill off my Ishkanah, Grafwidow spider tokens.

That had to be my longest game of magic, I ended up losing 2-1 after drawing 5 lands in a row and him slowly whittling down my health all the while with a Gonti, Lord of Luxury I could not afford to trade one of my creatures with, this was when I already had like 11 mana available which was lame. But I got third place anyways. Despite being long it was a challenging, yet fun match.

The second gameday I went 1-3, the problem is my deck was inconsistent with it being rather a hybrid of two strategies (delirium and counters) since I was lacking some of my much needed +1/+1 related cards. I had to mulligan a lot due to lack of lands showing up despite me using 24 which is fine. I forfeited my last match too someone I know because if I was to win he would lose his chance at top 4 and I already being 1-2 had nothing to gain from winning so I let him advance, he went on to being in the final match for the champion playmat but in round 3 because his opponent had a really, really good opening hand with zombies he just got steamrolled in the third round when they were 1-1. But the one who won is also a friend of mine who never got a gameday mat since he started gamedays in OGW, although he came close with an Aether Revolt one when it was between me and him for the aether revolt champion.

You attend any game days?

PrismaticSparx on First 11 days in M.T.G.! Help me defeat my gf!

5 days ago

whisenhuntn if she uses planeswalker to win consistently then I'd recommend running more Never / Returns. Likewise if she steals creatures then I'd recommend having sacrifice outlets that which allow you to sacrifice the creature when she tries to take it, so she's just wasted her spell and usually a sacrifice outlet will allow you to get something for it at least. Based on your description of her deck it might be worth splashing red in your deck for cards like Fling and other burn spells (burn = any spell or ability outside of combat which deals damage). You can also use burn spells to get rid of planeswalkers so it could be a good all round strategy. Also there's nothing better than Flinging a 7/7 at someone who just tried to steal it :D

Pieguy396 on Looking for Frontier Anti-Planeswalker cards ...

1 week ago

I agree with landofMordor; while casting both halves Never / Return on the same turn is most likely slightly worse than Awakening Ruinous Path, the installment plan makes it worth it.

Argeaux on Looking for Frontier Anti-Planeswalker cards ...

1 week ago

That's where my brain was going.

I wish the art on Never / Return was as good as Ruinous Path.

Argeaux on Looking for Frontier Anti-Planeswalker cards ...

1 week ago

I would like people's opinion:

What card would you Sideboard and why?

Ruinous Path or Never / Return

MikuFan01 on SUPER Budget Sub $20 B/W Zombies! Post Rotation

1 week ago

Did you take out all of the Never / Return or are they still part of the deck? Wanted to build this one and want to know what you're substituting those cards with.

BobaFett625 on *COMPETETIVE* Rakdos Control

2 weeks ago

I like the idea you have with this deck. Personally, if I am running control, I try to have 26 - 27 lands to help me make sure I am making my land drops every turn. maybe cut one or both To the Slaughter for 2 more lands ( It would be fine in the sideboard. I would also consider taking out the Sweltering Sands in favor of Never / Return. Sweltering Sands is probably better out of the sideboard unless you expect to face a good bit of aggro.

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