Needlethorn Drake

Creature — Drake

Flying, deathtouch

Legality

Format	Legality
1v1 Commander	Legal
Alchemy	Legal
Archenemy	Legal
Arena	Legal
Block Constructed	Legal
Brawl	Legal
Canadian Highlander	Legal
Casual	Legal
Commander / EDH	Legal
Commander: Rule 0	Legal
Custom	Legal
Duel Commander	Legal
Gladiator	Legal
Highlander	Legal
Historic	Legal
Legacy	Legal
Leviathan	Legal
Limited	Legal
Modern	Legal
Oathbreaker	Legal
Pauper	Legal
Pauper Duel Commander	Legal
Pauper EDH	Legal
Pioneer	Legal
Planechase	Legal
Pre-release	Legal
Quest Magic	Legal
Standard	Legal
Tiny Leaders	Legal
Vanguard	Legal
Vintage	Legal

Discussion (4)

legendofa on My cognitive dissonance around multicolor …

1 year ago

I believe that (effect in color A) + (effect in color B) should equal (combination of effects in multicolor AB). For example, deathtouch is a green-primary ability. First strike is a red- and white-primary ability. Therefore, a red-green or green-white creature with deathtouch and first strike is reasonable. This position is somewhat supported by a Great Designer Search test question, whose answer stated in part that a black-green creature with flying and vigilance is reasonable. The answer proved controversial, but was repeatedly and vigorously defended as officially correct. This position is also supported by cards such as Needlethorn Drake, Adult Gold Dragon, Kunoros, Hound of Athreos, and many, many others.

However.

There are no red-green or green-white (and no other color) creatures with deathtouch and first strike. Nor is there a (legal) black-green creature with vigilance and flying. The empirical evidence is completely missing. Also, the more complete GDS answer specifically states that a green-black creature with flying and vigilance (and no other abilities) is a better creative choice than a white-blue creature with flying and vigilance (and no other abilities). Before that question had been asked, answered, criticized, and defended, Tempest Drake was a card. Afterward, Warrant / Warden became a card. So not only is the empirical evidence missing in these cases, it seems to point in exactly the opposite direction as official philosophy, and my opinion that A + B should equal AB.

Instead, in practice, it seems that A + B is actually less than AB. There are ability combinations that do not exist in certain color pairs, even if each individual part of the ability combination is fairly represented by separate colors.

I see two resolutions. The first is that my belief, and the official position, is incorrect, and that a red-green "deathstriker" or a black-green vigilant flyer shouldn't exist. The second is that these ability combinations are feasible, and they simply haven't been printed yet for some reason.

What's the best way out of this? Which resolution is better, or is there a third option I'm not seeing?

Reference:

https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/making-magic/make-choice-part-1-2018-02-12

Question #28

legendofa on What is Gruul to you?

1 year ago

I think I'm not explaining myself well.

My central thought is that {R} + {G} does not equal {R}{G}. Red might not get deathtouch, but green has full access to it. Why should a red/green card not get deathtouch simply because red doesn't get deathtouch?

White doesn't get deathtouch either, but Arvad the Cursed, Spiteful Squad, Wintermoor Commander, and others have deathtouch. This can only be provided by the {B} requirement.

{U} doesn't get first strike. Sky Spirit, Leap of Flame, Deft Duelist, and others all have first strike provided by their other colors.

Ergo, a color can provide one of its abilities to a card, even if another color can't.

{R} can provide first strike to a card, even a {G} card, with Neheb, the Worthy, Stromkirk Captain, and Halana and Alena, Partners.

{G} can provide deathtouch to a card, as shown by Needlethorn Drake, Winged Coatl, and Venomthrope.

So why is {G} unable to provide deathtouch to {R} (and {W}) cards? Is {U} somehow better at removal than these colors?

I promise I'm not asking these questions rhetorically, or in anger. I genuinely don't fully understand. And as I was writing this response, I realize my position hearkens back to GDS3 and the infamous {B}{G} flying vigilance question. To which I respond that since that question was asked, Warrant / Warden was printed, and still no {B}{G} vigilant flyer.

And I think I've derailed this enough. If anyone wants to help me out, start another thread and I'll respond. With my apologies, let's get this back to the many faces of Gruul in Commander.

Cheiromancer on Budget Overbeing

1 year ago

Good suggestions, nocknock! Dropping Kiora's Follower for Needlethorn Drake maybe? I have a feeling the card was only there because of a Kiora theme. Lorescale Coatl is really good in this deck. Your opponent has to deal with it before you can put Shielding Plax on it, or else kill you quick. As fun as that combo looks, I wonder if it's a win more?

At the moment I'm thinking more of including Siren Stormtamer to help protect any Coatls that might get on the board. Again, I'd probably drop the Followers.

nocknock on Budget Overbeing

1 year ago

Maybe add a couple of Needlethorn Drake, and Give / Take + Lorescale Coatl would be interesting