Creature — Sliver
All Slivers have "(1), Sacrifice this permanent: Each player discards a card."
Printings View all
|Time Spiral (TSP)||Common|
Combos Browse all
|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Mindlash Sliver Discussion
4 months ago
drunksementhrowr We can discuss the deck here, or you're free to post on my profile!
The combo pieces have definitely seen some adjustments. The biggest change is the removal of Laboratory Maniac . Labman was high in CMC, and has no value outside the combo turn. Effectively, Labman is a complete dead draw if we aren't winning. This does mean that the self mill combo line has weakened, as Dread Return into labman on an empty library was a nice way to win. However, I think removing the labman line is correct. While it certainly can lead to wins, there are many parts during the line where you can be interrupted or have your win shut off. With our other lines, we can try another combo attempt later. The labman line is very all-in, once we have no cards in library we are either going to win the game or lose extremely soon. Labman also requires creatures in play, which we can't always guarantee, and a card that makes us draw, which we won't always have in hand.
To put it simply, it requires many deck slots, it does nothing besides win, its easy to shut off, and there is risk of a loss from doing it. I'm not saying labman is a bad combo by any means, but I think for this particular deck, adding consistency to the other combos is more important. Ad Nauseam acts as our most important win, and will let us assemble an infinite mana loop. After we have the loop, we use Lazav to copy and use Death Cultist or Bile Urchin to win. In the small amount of testing I've done on it, I like how it performs a bit better.
Some of the other cards offer support. Mindlash Sliver gives us a way to empty player hands, and protects our combo if we have infinite mana by discarding hand for everyone with Lazav. Martyr of Bones we can sacrifice for 0, which will let us mill out with infinite mana and Lazav, it also provides targeted grave hate which we can value time and again with Lazav. Martyr of Frost is a recurable effect with Lazav, which will help us with value in longer games. Unfortunately, we can't use the Martyr of Frost as a sac outlet to surveil with Lazav. Scheming Symmetry is another cheap tutor that does have a drawback, but the synergy with tutor to top to mill with surveil is strong.
The self mill lines have lost some extreme value without labman. However, we can choose to stop our self mill before we deck ourselves. Assembling the self mill combos is still strong, because we can Dread Return and copy with Lazav to recur an infinite mana combo. While our creature based combos require haste or an untap, the Orb + Alchemist combo can be used at the end step before our turn and we copy with Lazav so we can untap to combo, similar to how Ad Nauseam is played. Greaves + Cephalid has lost a lot of value though, and self milling somewhere between 30-80 cards it requires to assemble a combo in graveyard will not only make you a target but also telegraph the play. Considering removing the cephalid combo for deck space, but testing will reveal. I think the natural arc of this deck will bend towards replacing as many value cards with creatures as possible, and future printings will certainly draw our eyes.
I appreciate your interest in the deck and would love to hear about how it performs. Feel free to start an offshoot brew and replace some cards! I'm most curious to know how extra gas cards work in the build, and what you would replace for more gas. I hope this explanation helps a bit! After some more testing and brewing I will update the primer
5 months ago
Contamination does not spark joy :)
I'm not sure how spikey you want to be, but...
I found that once your table understands how dependent you are on Shirei, they kill it; and then you don't do much. I felt like the only playable version was with lots of discard: consistently trading 1:3.
Death triggers like Abyssal Gatekeeper are priority picks because they allow you to respond to your opponents' plays at flash speed instead of at end step.
Noxious Toad is the best version of this because it quickly locks your opponents out of the game by forcing them to play at flash speed or else discard as soon as they draw. (note: oracle says "each opponent")
6 months ago
Hi Strangelove, +1 for your list too!
This has definitely been tuned for a more casual play group. My group usually avoids combos, particularly infinite ones. But those are some very interesting combinations that I hadn't really noticed/ turned my attention to; I would definitely experiment with them in a more competitive meta. It just depends on the play group and what they're ok with.
I love Firewake Sliver and I really didn't notice the haste ability. I was too focused on the pay (1) ability, which I was trying to avoid haha. This will probably be an include- I want as much haste as possible. Mindlash Sliver is great, though in my group, as I wrote in the guide, is not too fond of hand disruption. Though in any other situation, it would be a definitely added in. Your suggestion of sac slivers and Dormant Sliver and Harmonic Sliver is an interesting idea I would like to actually test. I was worried about doing this because of consistency issues in seeing both a sac outlet + one of these slivers, because on their own these slivers and sac slivers don't really serve the purpose of this deck. Though, I've definitely thought of using Darkheart Sliver to capitalise on board-wipes; however I've been trying to avoid wipes entirely.
I'm testing the deck with more ramp and hope to add more soon!
Sometimes its super annoying to flip through the whole deck, though for me it feels very rewarding to potentially play 3 pieces of power in 1 turn. I guess that's just the gimmick of the deck. It's hilarious seeing my friends' faces when this happens.
I like reclamation, reconnaissance and summoner's pact, but I generally avoid cheap non-sliver spells. Instead of reclamation, I'll be trying to get recursion with my land base, e.g. Volrath's Stronghold and I'm testing Memorial to Folly and Mortuary Mire .
However, in future I would like to add more tutors to increase the consistency of the deck. Thus, Summoner's Pact would be a good include. Once I increase the consistency of the deck more, I'll go for more 1 cmc non-slivers, as you've suggested. This can be achieved by tutors or cards that reorganise the top of the library, e.g. Sylvan Library , Sensei's Divining Top or Scroll Rack . However, right now, I'm sticking to the current build in hopes of testing cards such as:
This'll be the first phase of my testing before I go more into tutors and ramp.
- And yeh, slivers are definitely going to be hated, no matter how you put it haha. I think in my play group, one which is not that used to slivers, they are a bit more kind.
Help was much appreciated! Glhf to you too,
6 months ago
Hey Sectiron, +1 for you mate!
Here's my (casual?) list: Slivers/ First/ Lords
Clearly you've given it some thought, but it reads like you're underestimating your excludes... unless you're under-tuning for casual, tbf.
I wanted to list a few combos in case you missed them ;)
...and more I'm sure!
...Basically, Morophon, the Boundless , Sliver Queen , and Pulmonic Sliver go infinite in many ways... and Dormant Sliver , Basal Sliver (aka Ashnod's Altar ) , and Darkheart Sliver are all really good.
...as are Firewake Sliver (it gives haste) and Mindlash Sliver . Really, any sacrifice in general would let you play and turn off Dormant Sliver / Harmonic Sliver (aka Aura Shards )/ Crystalline Sliver /(etc) as well as capitalize on board wipes.
Ramp feels really nice... why not play more? Resigning yourself to 5 mana sounds miserable! I agree cascading into ramp is a bummer, but if you play 2:1 cards like Skyshroud Claim , (etc), you'll consistently play your commander as well as protect yourself from land hate (...it is too easy to deny the WUBRG player).
Also, play way more 1-drops, including non-Slivers. I personally like Phyrexian Reclamation and have been testing Reconnaissance . Currently my only 0-drop is Summoner's Pact , which effectively lets me stop cascading through <100 cards, tutor, and then shuffle. Your current setup is torture! Cascading for a single 1-drop (which you can't skip and just tutor) into <3 0-drops? You're flipping and shuffling way too much for a single rock! Either way, though, it looks like fun.
My tables are also casual, but Slivers are arch-enemy... no matter what! Embrace it :)
Hopefully this was helpful. glhf!
7 months ago
Chainer's game plan should be something like... Ramp > Control > Reanimate.
Focus on filling and stealing from your opponents' graveyards and protecting Chainer.
Stax: Honestly, I would avoid hard stax. It encourages your opponents to hate you and escalate their power-level.
What this deck really needs is ramp: 38-40 lands and 12-16 cards like Bubbling Muck , Charcoal Diamond , Heartless Summoning , Burnished Hart , Coalition Relic , Revel in Riches , Black Market , Magus of the Coffers , Gauntlet of Power , Nirkana Revenant , etc. Also Phyrexian Tower .
...If you want to lean into stax... here's a list for evil people :)
8 months ago
You need re-animation. A lot of players hate slivers and will often focus you with their hate.
You also seem to be playing some slivers because you can, Mindlash Sliver which are actually hot garbage.
I would recommend more reanimation and less slivers for the sake of slivers, Mikaeus, the Unhallowed
1 year ago
1 year ago
Depends on the format. The multiple reliable modes of access to indirect & non-combat damage with slivers gives them the unique ability to simply outwait the opposition that so many agro creature strategies can't usually pull... But elves have their infinite mana with x spells ability as well.
For me the most degenerate slivers have been the indirect repeat abuse effect slivers the "sac a sliver do dmg" or Necrotic Sliver or Mindwhip Sliver or Mindlash Sliver ... Not many walls safe from that junk :)