|Commander / EDH||Legal|
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|Ravnica: City of Guilds (RAV)||Rare|
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Creature — Leviathan
Defender (This creature can't attack.)
When Grozoth enters the battlefield, you may search your library for any number of cards that have converted mana cost 9, reveal them, and put them into your hand. If you do, shuffle your library.
: Grozoth loses defender until end of turn.
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1 month ago
Hey, thanks for the suggestions and the upvotes!
@Atuva and SirSh4ggy: Ramos, Dragon Engine has high upside if its ability gets going, but he will be too slow in the deck without further support, I expect. That's because there are relatively few multicolored spells and the cmc of the deck is rather high (even with the alternative cost from Jodah). And I don't want to put cards like Doubling Season in the deck only for Ramos. It would be great if somebody pointed out a way to include Ramos, Dragon Engine into the Grozoth combo (searching him out with Dragonstorm wouldn't do much yet).
@SirSh4ggy: Maelstrom Wanderer doesn't hit most of the powerhouses in the deck, so I didn't include it, but Unexpected Results seems cool because it either ramps or has a chance on hitting the powerhouses (and I play few counterspells) - cool addition!
Quicksilver Amulet and company won't let me use the cast triggers of my creatures, so they're not optimal. But Defense of the Heart is a tutor at least and can search something like Dragonlord Kolaghan + Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre which is nice. And Elvish Piper could maybe replace Myojin of Life's Web.
@Spoosky: Akroma's Memorial is a good idea! A lot of my creatures have no evasion at all and this will give them all kinds of evasion. If testing shows that my threat density is more than enough, then I'll try to find room for the memorial.
1 month ago
Thanks for the feedback! You've made several suggestions I agree with entirely, some I think are on point but need a few tweaks, and some I disagree with. I'll break it down card by card:
First, you're totally right about Army of the Damned, it's not as good in this deck as it is elsewhere. I've found it generally underwhelming every time I've drawn it, and I've never grabbed it off a tutor. Deploy to the Front is an excellent suggestion. Not only does it generally produce more value, but it helps me stabilize if I have a rough early game, something army is notoriously bad for. I'll put it on the acquireboard tonight. Ezuri's Predation and Horncaller's Chant seem a little low impact however. As for Divergent Transformations, that's a hilarious card I've never seen before. Chaos warping two things can be great, but I feel like my current draw, cheating, and removal effects are so much better that they outweigh the utility value of the card. I'll have to think about it more, however.
Spawning Grounds is card I saw when doing research for my deck and decided was too cute. It's painfully slow, as you mentioned, and I'd rather just be drawing cards in the lategame when I have the mana to cast whatever I want, since my cards almost always beat 5/5s.
I think you're underestimating the disgusting value I can get with Myojin of Seeing Winds. It draws me a card for EVERY PERMANENT I CONTROL. Even lands. It has yet to draw me less than 15 cards. The 3/3 sucks but I'd never play it for the body. Honestly the only reason I might drop it is I'd have a couple games where I couldn't use it because it'd deck me, but when my board's that developed it's a win-more situation anyway. While you're right that Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur is easy to remove and gives advance warning, it also draws me 7 cards, which is major gas. That's why I generally play it on my turn rather than abuse the flash ability. The discard on my opponents is just icing on the cake if I can make it happen. I also consider discard a form of resource denial, and I'm concerned going all in on making my friends dump their hands will lose me said friends.
Now on to All Suns' Dawn. Ooh boy. I think you underestimate the ability of the card to recur things besides my creatures (bring back Conflux for maximum degeneracy points), but I also have yet to use it for the amazing value it theoretically provides. Being unable to grab colorless cards is a bigger downside in this deck than it should be in 5 colors, but it is what it is. I may be cutting it. Debtors' Knell is another card I've never seen before, and I think I need more time to evaluate it. Theoretically, the payoff is insane, but I fear it may suffer the same issues as Dawn currently does. It definitely merits testing.
Baneful Omen is great synergy, but I feel it's a bit slow and not all that impactful, even when I hit cards like Progenitus. It's also outclassed (in my opinion) by similar cards: I'd sooner run my Twilight Prophet for the added lifegain and draw. I'll have to consider more if effects like that are strong enough for the slots they'd occupy. Definitely an interesting suggestion.
You're right, Grozoth isn't a huge play, especially since I've been cutting Grozoth targets left and right. It may be out of the deck soon, despite the wonderful "That's a card?" reactions I get with it. However, consider it's a 9/9 blocker too, and that I can get Myojin of Life's Web with it to vomit cards from my hand right after the draw.
I LOVE Cruel Entertainment, but for some reason it never occurred to me to add it to this deck. It'll probably go in with the next edit. Great suggestion!
That's where I am right now, but you've given me a lot to think about, and I might develop new opinions about a lot of your points as I consider them. Definitely appreciate the feedback!
1 month ago
As a brief forward, do take this advice with a grain of salt. It is purely my own musings on what is already a beautiful deck. That being said...
I think that Army of the Damned is honestly pretty weak. In terms of token generation, 13 is rather small, and even though they are 2/2s, 26 damage isn't killing anyone. While they could be used as chump blockers, you can honestly just use a bigger threat. I think that in terms of rivaling an actual token generation strategy Deploy to the Front is a better choice. You get chump blockers in a quantity that can compete with Assemble the Legion in late game or even Krenko, Mob Boss for a turn. Alternatively, Ezuri's Predation is a solid choice in dealing with token generators and in the right circumstances, counts as a one sided board wipe. Yeah, it forces you to attack things you might not want to, but it also forces your opponents to block with key pieces that are sure to die, I am thinking commanders and creatures with tap effects. Whichever way you go, Horncaller's Chant is a great follow up, and has value even if you dont have tokens, though admitedly not ton. If 40 Pegasi aren't enough to win a game, I am sure that 80 will be. In your deck, pairing any token generation with Divergent Transformations, is bound to be strong, and unpredictable in a fun way.
After you have ramped into more mana than you know what to do with, Spawning Grounds might be a way to go. It is slow, but it allows for full utility of unused lands.
Looking at your card draw, I find Myojin of Seeing Winds an odd choice. Its pretty answerable even with the indestructible keyword. Biomantic Mastery is more value and on the same turn it is played (and a sweet flavor win with Momir Vig). Any kind of card draw plus Cabal Conditioning gets the Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur effect without everybody gunning for you. When Jin-Gitaxias is played, everybody is given an opportunity to focus it down, but Cabal Conditioning limits their answers to instants and if not answered, sets you up for at least one full turn of unanswered plays.
The direct and continuous recursion of Debtors' Knell is probably better than All Suns' Dawn, even though you wont be getting cast triggers off of your Eldrazi, cheating your bigger things into play is usually better than getting them in hand
In this deck a card like Baneful Omen does a lot of work. Yeah it gives away a ton of information, but it is a nuisance that affects all opponents that thrives on your high cmc cards.
Also, Grozoth can only ever draw you a maximum of 6 cards, and while all of those have value, it always tutors for the same stuff, perhaps leading to stale gameplay.
Even if this hasn't been helpful, I hope it was at least a little bit thought provoking
1 month ago
Hi, I'll leave a comment on your deck in a minute!
My own deck is a timmie-style take on Jodah, Archmage Eternal with a little combo element (but non-infinite). Let me know what you think of it! Especially, do you see any way to improve the Grozoth combo?
Commander / EDH*
SCORE: 17 | 10 COMMENTS | 3272 VIEWS | IN 9 FOLDERS
2 months ago
Grozoth would also be fun either tutoring up more grozoths or something else big
3 months ago
This deck looks sweet, and I really like some of the cards you've got in here (especially Lunar Mystic, never knew an effect like that existed), but I feel the deck is somewhat lacking in direction. You've got some sweet stax pieces (Rising Waters and Ward of Bones), some awesome instant/sorcery support (Lunar Mystic and Disciple of the Ring), along with tons of other cool cards. Overall I think you need to pick a theme and stick to it. There are some cool cards in here that don't really have synergy with the deck (Grozoth, Riddlekeeper and small mill package, and the Donate + Illusions of Grandeur combo).
I don't have that much in the way of suggestions, since I don't know which of your themes you want to focus on. However, here are some things that synergize nicely with your commander. Forcing creatures to block is very powerful with Tromokratis, since it forces them to block with their entire team if possible. In addition, preventing their creatures from blocking or tapping them down basically makes him unblockable, giving you a fairly quick kill. Courtly Provocateur can either make utility creatures attack and die or force creatures to block, making your commander's swing into a pseudo-board wipe. Grappling Hook is a repeatable form of this effect that also grants double strike, turning your commander into an incredibly powerful beater.
Now, on to ways to stop creatures from blocking to make Tromokratis unblockable. Tamiyo, the Moon Sage is a great source of card draw that can also tap down troublesome permanents. Frost Titan, while probably the worst of the titan cycle, is still a troublesome card to deal with, and can lock down permanents. If you're willing to commit to running numerous colorless sources (and you've already got a bunch of colorless rocks), Endbringer can prevent big things from attacking, basically give Tromokratis unblockable, and even give you card draw. Fatestitcher is a great card in mono-blue, since not only does it serve as ramp, it can also tap down problematic stuff at instant speed.
Finally, some general blue good stuff. Cyclonic Rift is one of the best removal spells in the format. Whelming Wave can occasionally serve as a one-sided board wipe. I'm not sure if you have a reason for excluding Sol Ring, but otherwise it definitely should be making the cut.
I think you might want to cut back on some of the non-basic lands you've got in here, even if just to slightly improve the odds on Scrying Sheets. Some of the stuff you've got in here (Magosi, the Waterveil) just seems like a worse island in the vast majority of situations.
Sorry if this comment was overly general, let me know what kind of direction you want to take with the deck and I'll try to give you some more specific suggestions.
5 months ago
Pretty good, Clockspinning is a huge help for the counters on squid mission though.