Creature — Spirit
, : Ghost-Lit Raider deals 2 damage to target creature.
Channel — , Discard Ghost-Lit Raider: Ghost-Lit Raider deals 4 damage to target creature.
Printings View all
|Saviors of Kamigawa (SOK)||Uncommon|
|Promo Set (000)||Uncommon|
Combos Browse all
|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Ghost-Lit Raider Discussion
1 month ago
Do you guys even play in competitive pods? Stax is a very easy match up for flash hulk players. Just hold removal before you combo if one of the 6 pieces that shuts you off is actually in play.
With the exception of stax pieces that shut off the flash hulk combo, almost every other stax piece actually helps the flash hulk player, because it lowers interaction from other players and allows them to combo in peace. Yes, the stax will hurt the flash hulk player, but its hurting the other players even more. You're creating an advantage for them by deficit, because the deficit is bigger for other players.
- Rule of Law and variants don't hamper the finding or executing of flash hulk
- Sphere of Resistance , Trinisphere , Winter Orb , Static Orb , and similar lower the amount of interaction other players are able to meaningfully hold against the flash hulk. Flash hulk must only assemble 2 mana to execute the combo, so even with tax or slow down pieces it doesn't take long for them to assemble the mana, even under Trinisphere
- Creature wipes or other board wipes don't really slow the flash hulk game plan, unless your wipe is at instant speed. The new fish hulk allows players to hold priority and fully execute the library flip into GY and stack the trigger before passing priority, negating instant speed wipes as a method for interacting
- Grave hate pieces are now irrelevant unless they stop the death trigger, as fish hulk can execute without reliance on GY
- Artifact hate like Stony Silence hits back up lines or fast mana for flash hulk, but doesn't stop the actual hulk
- Handstax are too slow unless you get a great play like Entomb into Reanimate on a Sire Of Insanity . Incremental handstax like Oppression or Necrogen Mists are certainly strong, but don't dump player hands fast enough to fully stop the flash hulk, but they do whittle away interaction from opponents trying to stop flash hulk
There's only a small handful of cards that stop the flash hulk combo outside of counterspells. We're looking at Pithing Needle Phyrexian Revoker or Sorcerous Spyglass naming Nomads en-Kor . There is also tutor hate with Aven Mindcensor or Stranglehold (and Leonin Arbiter , but thats just a delay, not a hard stop). Finally, you have big creature hate effects like Cursed Totem , Linvala, Keeper of Silence , or Suppression Field . Finally, you have creature hate that removes small dorks, like Plague Engineer , Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite , or Night of Souls' Betrayal
Not all of those pieces are good enough to warrant slotting. Also slotting all of these pieces would lower your card quality significantly, which causes more losses against all decks that AREN'T running hulk (read: the two other players in the pod)
Part of the reason why its such a big slice of the meta and pretty much the deck to beat is because it is highly efficient, there is strong layering, it plays around stax, and the color identity gives it access to big draw engines, the most efficient tutors, and the most efficient removal.
So you land your Linvala against the T&T fishhulk player. All they have to do is continue to draw cards or tutor up a Path to Exile or any other piece of removal before jamming their combo.
Even if you decide to run Extract and pull the hulk from their deck, the deck isn't dead. You can Thrasios + infinite mana (dramatic scepter most likely) as a win-con. You get labman + consult as a wincon. The deck has very good layering. Even when you shut down the primary goal, it has still been advancing towards the second combo too. The Sylvan Library that was played turn 1 is now digging for consult pieces instead of hulk pieces. The tutors can be used to find those pieces instead. The best part, is that the stax pieces which shut off hulk combo don't shut off the other combos, which is why those combos in specific are layered underneath the hulk package.
I'm going to level with you Megalomania. You have told me you play flash hulk. Then you suggest the solution to fish hulk is to build a deck that makes it easier for fish hulk in pods. Then you say you have limited experience, but "just build the right archetype bro". So my question now is, are you just an extremely bad player who bought a $4000 deck, or are you an angle shooting dickhead trying to spread bad information to help avoid a ban for your $4000 deck?
Honestly, I kind of expect both sides out of flash hulk players. While I do suspect you're a competent dickhead spreading bad info, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if you're a dummy who looked up the most popular tier 1 deck and bought it. Either way, I really need you to stop spreading your garbage information by posting. There are already enough bad players on tappedout, we really don't need any more help in that department.
StopShot The effects from Faerie Macabre and Ghost-Lit Raider are activated abilities from a creature, and are thus turned off from Grand Abolisher . Similarly, Simian Spirit Guide is shut off as well. Similarly, Linvala and Cursed Totem also turn off all three of these creature abilities.
Besides that, you do state succinctly why hulk should be banned over flash in response to the article. I agree. Hulk being legal forces specific and jank deckbuilding requirements.
1 month ago
I read that post and I disagree with Flash being banned over Protean Hulk . And I get the reasoning for it - it would better if we didn’t have to ban deck archetypes outright and Flash makes everything too consistent and fast and easy to hold up counter magic.
I would however argue that this makes Hulk decks easier to stop if you are running a blue deck, but harder to stop if you are running a non-blue deck. My best answers to stop Hulk is Red Elemental Blast , Pyroblast and Nevermore and if Flash isn’t in the picture I’m going to need to board more niche answers possibly over the red counter spells I’d need for other blue decks just to impact hulk decks. Without Flash hulk players will only run a wider array of cards to get the combo going that can make the combo less interactive for non-blue decks. For example if the Hulk player wants to kill their Hulk with say Altar of Dementia that’s fine, I run enough Disenchant effects to stop it before it gets to that point, but if they sac the Hulk with say Diabolic Intent I’m boned. Having more ways to start the combo may be less consistent for Hulk decks, but its a major headache for people without all-purpose counter magic.
I’ve never liked Hulk decks for the longest time and if you had to ask me I would tell you they should have either banned Protean Hulk or at least ban Grand Abolisher , because I hate running cards like Faerie Macabre , Ghost-Lit Raider and Barbarian Ring just to interact around it. Now that Thassa's Oracle is out I don’t think there’s even much reason to use Grand Abolisher over how good the oracle makes the deck which terrifies me honestly. Removing Flash is a major setback I agree, but I can’t help but feel that there will be cards printed in the future which will make the Hulk easy to cheat into play yet again. Not as easy as Flash , but enough for it to be a concern in the meta like it is now. My argument is unless non-blue decks get better answers that aren’t incredibly niche I think Protean Hulk should get the ban hammer now. Whether Flash gets banned or not I’ve decided I’m not going to even address combating this deck archetype anymore when deck-building, because it just makes my deck useless against every other cEDH deck I’m up against if I have to run so many janky answers.
7 months ago
I would have banned Contamination & Infernal Darkness long before I would have banned Iona, Shield of Emeria . Contamination makes Blood Moon and Back to Basics look as trivial as Root Maze when optimized for lockdown. If it didn't affect basic lands I would be much more okay with it.
Protean Hulk or Grand Abolisher - either one of those I would have banned. If my best answer to a combo is Cabal Pit or Ghost-Lit Raider 's channel ability something has gone wrong. If better answers were printed to get around this combo *cough* Grand Abolisher *cough* then it wouldn't be as bad.
Lastly I would have banned Dakmor Salvage . The infinite combo with this card, a discard outlet, and The Gitrog Monster is like the love child between Modern KCI and Legacy Four Horsemen. The casuals in my playgroup don't even want to bother understanding the inter-complexities that go behind this combo because there is a lot to take in, especially when the Gitrog player uses their discard step as a discard outlet to win the game. (Yes, I understand Gitrog players can use their discard step as a repeatable method to cycle Dakmor Salvage .) The issue here is, if no one can or wants to fully understand all the rules and limits that go behind this strategy that means only the Gitrog player is responsible for checking to see if the Gitrog player is following the rules behind his combo or not. The point is unless I'm there this player gets away with winning games a judge would have tossed the book at him for, because he knows his opponents won't challenge him on the validity of his reasoning. (Even I'm not fully knowledgeable on it myself either; I just have a better general understanding.) Seeing it get played in my casual play group is just too painful to watch and no one wants to make a play-group ban or else said player is going to feel singled out which would create bad blood amongst players. Either way this one combo has been disbanding my play group and nobody really wants to play the game as much given the stigma of the combo. I have even given up building my deck to go up against theirs as it would require boarding in cards that would already set my own deck back like Rest in Peace , Cursed Totem , and Suppression Field .
Contamination and Flash-Hulk combo are a pain to deal with, but I feel like I can still somewhat interact with them with cards like Seal of Cleansing and Red Elemental Blast . It's just those strategies feel like they run against the spirit of the game and are just too harsh to deal with as it currently stands. The Gitrog-Dakmor Salvage combo however, is the only strategy I feel incredibly helpless against that is crushing my interest in playing this format. I don't think these cards will ever get banned however, because they're either too obscure for most casual players to use often enough and/or they demand a player to own a lot of monetarily expensive cards in order to use them consistently and fast. Contamination , Infernal Darkness , Grand Abolisher , and Dakmor Salvage are the cards I feel need to banned the most given their impact when utilized in decks that can use them optimally.
1 year ago
@killroy726, FormerBalloon, The problem with cards like Tormod's Crypt , Relic of Progenitus , and Nihil Spellbomb is both deck strategies can easily bypass these. Flash-Hulk can easily tutor out a Grand Abolisher which shuts down their abilities entirely, and Gitrog can always discard another land, or put a draw trigger on the stack to save their Dakmor Salvage just to resume the combo all over again.
@xaarvaxus, The Walking Ballista combo has been removed in order to run these hate cards, but I still note it in case if there are better cards that won't interfere with it. I did run Darksteel Mutation , but the Gitrog player would just start playing their full combo in one turn which bypasses the sorcery speed of Darksteel Mutation . To better effect I simply ran Nevermore naming The Gitrog Monster , but Nevermore would become awkward in games where The Gitrog Monster wasn't present, as Nevermore 's hate effect can really get a particular player to start hating you fast.
@xeratheenigma, I've considered cards such as Go for the Throat and Terminate , but holding up 2 mana every turn can feel like a serious drag and slows my board progression over time, so I would prefer to keep it to 1-mana instant speed spells if applicable. (Plus a lot of popular commanders utilize black anyway, but I agree that I'd like a card that had better range as it feels like a worse Pyroblast .)
Instead of Darkblast I run Molten Vortex as it's repeatable effect can bypass counterspells which is very helpful against counter-heavy decks that want to win through Laboratory Maniac , Azami, Lady of Scrolls , Arcum Dagsson and Edric, Spymaster of Trest . I've ran Barbarian Ring , Cabal Pit , and Scavenger Grounds , but the flux of graveyard hate easily kills threshold and holding up 2 mana and the Scavenger Grounds is a real pain. I'm on the fence about Faerie Macabre as the graveyard-hate effect feels too narrow against other decks. I might be more inclined to run Ghost-Lit Raider , but holding up 4-mana doesn't make it any better either. Leyline of the Void also feels gimmicky as a 1-of in a 100-card deck, as both combos can easily out-race me in playing it if it's not in my opening hand. I would prefer running Planar Void instead, but that card would ruin my Wayward Servant + Gravecrawler combo.
The Gitrog player in my play group doesn't own a Chains of Mephistopheles , but I'm fairly certain it's discard effect would trigger before the dredge trigger unless they have two Dakmor Salvage 's. Either way, it's discard effect by itself isn't an activated ability, so I question if using one to cycle through the deck this way would share the same un-deterministic qualities as using the discard phase. (And thus be frowned upon in tournament settings.)
3 years ago
also another way found if I have Enchanted Evening and Aura Thief on the battlefield and 4 mana (Simian Spirit guide or Elvish spirit guide, doesnt matter. use the activated ability of Ghost-Lit Raider or Arashi, the Sky Asunder targeting Aura Thief. I now steal all of your lock, does this count as getting out?