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Garruk's Packleader Discussion
4 days ago
Ok, big post incoming!
I feel like this deck would be better with Trostani, Selesnya's Voice or Rhys the Redeemed as commander. Emmara is very expensive to cast, and will not protect tokens from things like Wrath of God, Cyclonic Rift or Black Sun's Zenith. Having more tokens is usually better than having ones that don't take damage. At the very least try to get Rhys and Trostani in your 99. I do like where this is going, though.
- Take out Emancipation Angel for Conjurer's Closet, because flickering things with ETB effects many times is better than doing it just once.
- Throw in a Sol Ring too because they're a must in any EDH deck. Take out Selesnya Keyrune.
- Take out Unflinching Courage for Behemoth Sledge, which does pretty much the same but will stay on the field if the creature carrying it dies.
- Font of Fertility isn't very good when you could run Rampant Growth, Cultivate or Kodama's Reach.
- Maybe run more token generation? Maybe Hornet Queen and definitely Rampaging Baloths and/or Avenger of Zendikar. Verdant Force is fantastic in multiplayer formats.
- I'd run something like White Sun's Zenith over Fated Intervention. A couple centaurs is pretty underwhelming.
Other things to work on? Card draw and removal. Smite the Monstrous is much worse than something like Swords to Plowshares. Another boardwipe would be good too. Try Phyrexian Rebirth or Martial Coup. For card draw, I'd look into green stuff like Garruk's Packleader, Shamanic Revelation, Greater Good, Garruk, Primal Hunter, etc. Best of all would be Skullclamp. Stick it on a 1/1 token, get two cards... repeat as necessary.
Stuff to take out would be Barkshell Blessing, which isn't going to help much at all in this format or this deck; the benefit is very minimal. Wheel of Sun and Moon doesn't really help you because tokens will leave the game as a state-based action the moment they hit the graveyard. Your deck just isn't set up to take advantage of it. You could take out some things like Devout Chaplain, Selesnya Sagittars and Phytohydra, which are unlikely to help much in this deck. There's not enough synergy with them. Dawnglow Infusion also doesn't really do much, there will always be better plays. Endless Swarm should absolutely come out. Not being able to play spells will make you lose.
Hope that helps, sorry if it's a bit overwhelming!
1 week ago
enpc I can't express my gratitude enough for your knowledge and time. Thank you!
The idea of Tolsimir Wolfblood as commander was entirely my friend's idea:) I told him the same thing you mentioned: that if he wanted lots of creatures & tokens to go with Rhys the Redeemed, or Saffi Eriksdotter/other legendary creatures for pure combo. He's a fanatic when it comes to wolves, and is very thoughtful about a card's art. Being his first deck, I said I would support and help with whatever he chose, and he chose Tolsimir.
Now I know it's not the most powerful option, but I think it definitely has potential, and will be able to hold it's own against other decks of similar budget. And my friend won't be going to tournaments or anything. Just our playgroup and at the shop. We all try to make our decks as competitive as possible given our budget.
Also, one last thing: The synergy I mentioned with Ashnod's Altar/Phyrexian Altar and a token doubler Parallel Lives/Primal Vigor/Doubling Season was taking into account that both Tolsimir Wolfblood and Thornbite Staff were on the battlefield. Tap equipped commander to put two Voja tokens onto the battlefield, "legendary" state-based action triggers, putting one into the grave. Thornbite Staff's ability triggers, untapping the commander. You then sac. the token to the engine, rinse, repeat. (correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that's how the rules work)
Please take all the time you need! I'm eager to be working with you on this project:) I'll also look for potential cards that could be used with the combo.
Speaking of which, the new spoiler from Magic Origins Elemental Bond could be the solution we were waiting for to replace Fecundity/Kavu Lair and go alongside Garruk's Packleader. No advantages for opponents...Your thoughts?
Looking forward to our collaboration:) Cheers!
1 week ago
Edit: Also check out Lurking Predators.
1 week ago
Thank you so much enpc for your great suggestions!! Ok...where to start...
My friend wants a competitive yet fun deck with his $250 budget. He loves a good challenge, hence combo, and doesn't mind complicated synergies. He also mentioned wanting multiple options to win, (sac outlets with different effects, secondary/alternative combos) to tailor to specific situations so each game feels unique.
I totally agree that using Thornbite Staff as primary combo is a "glass canon" approach, hence why I asked for your help:) Alas, it is also one of few cards that actually combo with the commander and legendary rule. There is also it's synergy with Ashnod's Altar/Phyrexian Altar and any token doubler (Parallel Lives/Primal Vigor/Doubling Season) for infinite damage, if I do lean towards tokens. Which brings me to my next point...
As having only Thornbite Staff + Tolsimir Wolfblood is fragile, I like your suggestion for another way to interact with the sac engines that don't require any of the former, like Presence of Gond + Midnight Guard. The only worry I have is the ability to tutor for the aura...as you mentioned, G/W is strong in creature tutor but not so much artifacts/enchantments. I noticed in the comments section of your deck that you have a Sun Titan + Fiend Hunter combo that goes infinite with any sac engine. Both are creatures that can easily be tutored for, and Sun Titan has the added benefit of being able to recur Thornbite Staff standalone. On the same note is your Avenger of Zendikar/Wurmcoil Engine + Nim Deathmantle combo. Could those work in this deck?
Thank you for pointing out Kavu Lair/Fecundity, as it does give opponents too much advantage. Just wondering if it was possible at all to hold it in hand until you can combo off? That way, the only one who can take advantage of the effect would be me on my turn, draw my library, and win. Just a thought...
Thanks again for your wonderful help! Really appreciate it! Looking forward to working on this together:)
1 week ago
So, the important question is about budget and level of play desired. Do you have a price range you're wanting to work with?
Other than that, a few recommendations:
I wouldn't run Kavu Lair and I have reservations about Fecundity. The reasons are that Kavu Lair is a) a must effect and b) isn't a creature so you can't sacrifice it to get around the ability. The other reason I'm not super keen on either is that they help out all players and more than that, you don't have control over when other players get advantage. At least with cards like Mikokoro, Center of the Sea you have control over when people draw. A good card to use instead is Skullclamp - its incredibly powerful and you can fetch it with Stoneforge Mystic. Similarly you can use cards like Garruk's Packleader which not only can you easily sacrifice, but more importantly is a may effect that only effects you.
Your primary combo always relies on Thornbite Staff. Although there is technically no problem with this, it means that the entire deck has a Achilles heel at this card. The other problem with it is that your combo uses two artifacts and one creature as a posed to two creatures an one artifact. Traditionally green/white is good at tutoring creatures but not as good at tutoring artifacts. This is somewhat mitigated by one of the artifacts being an equipment but is still presents somewhat of an issue. Further still, Thornbite Staff is a one of a kind card.
To deal with the issue that Thornbite Staff is pretty unique, you have a few options. My personal favourite would be to use combos like Presence of Gond + Midnight Guard which not only work with the sac outlets, but also act to produce infinite creatures giving you a secondary win condition. You can also run cards like Imperious Perfect (while not as good within combo) produce lots of tokens. And as you general is a built in anthem, it means your deck can easily go down the beatdown route if you need. I would recommend sticking to elves. it will make the deck more uniform as you can run elf cards without having to worry about creature type.
This should give you a good starting point. Once you've got these picked we can talk about mana base and ramp/draw.
1 week ago
I haven't really been keeping track of the Magic Origins spoilers, but after taking a quick look through I can't say that I see anything that I'm particularly excited about.
Avaricious Dragon is interesting for more casual burn decks. After you blast through your hand it acts as a top-of-the-curve beater and card draw.
The new Gideon looks decent for constructed. Starting as a 2/1 for one mana is good and he can keep up the pressure in the mid-game once he flips.
Elemental Bond is probably the card that I see getting the most EDH use thus far. It's cheaper than Garruk's Packleader and is a little harder to remove from the board. It will probably pop up in Blink decks a fair bit.
Languish is a decent board wipe. It does the same as Mutilate would on the fourth turn but it isn't restricted to being played in mono-black to be effective. It'll likely see a reasonable amount of constructed play.
1 week ago
Seems like a good starting base. It seems like it needs some utility, and those colors have pretty good options.
Some draw cards like Phyrexian Arena, Read the Bones, and Harmonize, or some less effective draw that fits your high creature theme like Yavimaya Elder, Garruk's Packleader, Drumhunter, Erebos, God of the Dead, Baleful Force.
Some more creature removal like Grave Pact and Sheoldred, Whispering One, as well as some general removal like Hull Breach, Relic Crush, Decimate, and Beast Within, or creature based removal like Acidic Slime and Reclamation Sage.
2 weeks ago
Hey, if someone could help me with my Deck that would be greatly appreciated. i currently have 85 cards in my deck and would like to cut that to 60 or keep the same amount of cards but make it better. the Following is a list of my cards
4x Hair of the Wilds
1x Zhaur-Taa Druid
1x Magma Spray
1x Wild Slash
2x Golden Hind
2x Lava Axe
1x Boon Satyr
1x Time to Feed
|Power / Toughness||4/4|
|Avg. draft pick||3.42|
|Avg. cube pick||8.21|
|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Printings View all
|2011 Core Set||Uncommon|
- Clone + Garruk's Packleader + Glimmerpoint Stag
- Garruk's Horde + Garruk's Packleader
- Garruk's Packleader + Soul of Zendikar
- Garruk's Packleader + Temur Ascendancy
- Garruk's Packleader + Rampaging Baloths
- Garruk's Packleader + Meandering Towershell + Temur Ascendancy
- Garruk's Packleader + Nissa, Worldwaker
- Garruk's Packleader + Hydra Broodmaster
- Garruk's Packleader + Genesis Hydra + Temur Sabertooth
- Garruk's Packleader + Urabrask the Hidden
- Fervor + Garruk's Packleader
- Garruk's Packleader + Growing Ranks
- Garruk's Packleader + Animar, Soul of Elements + Leashling