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Creature — Dragon
: Forgestoker Dragon deals 1 damage to target creature. That creature can't block this combat. Activate this ability only if Forgestoker Dragon is attacking.
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Forgestoker Dragon Discussion
3 months ago
I will look at taking out Crucible of Fire for Quicksilver Amulet and Broodmate Dragon for Scalelord Reckoner. they shouldn't affect too much except adding some more white, which I think my current mana base can handle. Would Consign to Dust and/or Primeval Light suffice for enchantment/artifact hate? I know one is slow, but I would love you thoughts on these.
I feel like Steel Hellkite Siege Dragon Forgestoker Dragon Ryusei, the Falling Star Scourge of Valkas Deathbringer Regent Silumgar, the Drifting Death and Dragon Tempest give me a lot of pseudo wipes. I was looking to Merciless Eviction at some point because Indestructable is always a problem.
With all the ramp I have, Dragonstorm has been a game ender with Dragon Tempest and/or Ramos, Dragon Engine. I usually grab Scourge of Valkas, Broodmate Dragon, and whoever else I need for the situation. Usually it storms 3 times.
I would love a Bloodstained Mire, Wooded Foothills and Verdant Catacombs. Right now I'm running Rocky Tar Pit, Mountain Valley, and Bad River for budget reasons. I also want to put it a Cavern of Souls for Ancient Ziggurat
Into the Wilds really ramps! That is awesome, thank you for telling me!
You definitely seem more experienced then me so I hope keep bouncing ideas back and forth. This is SUPER helpful!
1 year ago
I really need to add the Fierce Empaths here. This deck is all about getting Ruric Thar, the Unbowed onto the field as soon as possible and doing nice effects through creatures alone. While, as of this posting, Fierce Empath can find me only 7 cards (2x Forgestoker Dragon, 2x Inferno Titan, and 3x Ruric Thar, the Unbowed), these represent half of the current set of beaters in the deck and generally are the cards I most want to make sure I find. Just getting Ruric Thar, the Unbowed out ASAP is already worth the inclusion of Fierce Empath. Another advantage I see in doing this is that it would possibly allow me to move 1 each of Forgestoker Dragon and Inferno Titan to the sideboard, dropping the mana curve a bit, though that may be a bad idea.
The deck could use help to more quickly find the creatures and land it needs, and it could use improved ramp to be able to do more than one big thing at a time.
Now, how to make room?
1 year ago
Version 1.3 is here!
In this version i removed a copy of each temple from the cube to encourage the use of mono colored and duo colored decks rather then 3 colored ones. I swapped out the temples in favour for:
This To give all colours an equal amount of cards since i added Chained to the rocks before and also buff some of the color combinations that is currently struggeling. I added in The 3 unknown shores for additional fixing that also works better with aggro decks since they where a bit slow with the temples.
1 year ago
Hey! You've got some cool choices in here that I haven't seen in a while. However, I would try to shift your focus from some of these cards to cards with generically more value.
Before doing anything, however, I must recommend looking at your banned cards listed, including Upheaval and Prophet of Kruphix. These two cards are banned in EDH and should be removed immediately if you're serious about playing EDH.
Here are the weakest cards in your deck:
- Seek the Horizon: Adding lands to your hand instead of ramping them straight to the battlefield is a mistake. Definitely switch out for cards resembling your Explosive Vegetation. For example, Harrow, Ranger's Path, Skyshroud Claim.
- Bountiful Harvest: Having some life gain is an okay choice, but not a 5-mana investment like this. Check out Nissa's Renewal and Pulse of Murasa. They each provide some value alongside the lifegain so you don't feel like you're wasting a turn gaining an amount of life that will likely by irrelevant.
- Ashcloud Phoenix: Lacks impact. It's just a 4/1 that honestly isn't that scary. Compare this to your Acidic Slime that hits the field and instantly matters by destroying something relevant! You can play more cards like that in the form of Reclamation Sage (or Caustic Caterpillar if your opponents often use Torpor Orb) or perhaps Woodfall Primus. Alternatively, I would even recommend considering Sarkhan Unbroken instead, since it ramps, draws, makes 4/4 dragons, and has a pretty sweet ultimate for your deck.
- Avalanche Tusker: This kind of just seems like a removal spell for 5 mana. Why not just play a versitile removal spell like Song of the Dryads, Cyclonic Rift, or Beast Within? I'm actually very shocked that I'm not seeing Cyclonic Rift in this list.
- Destructor Dragon: I'm not seeing you abusing this particularly. I don't see a Birthing Pod to sacrifice it, nor do I see any way to reanimate it. Maybe just Frost Titan or Deadeye Navigator instead? If you're heartset on a flyer for this slot, consider Dragonmaster Outcast or Hornet Queen. Both seem to be much more powerful in the grand scheme.
- Forgestoker Dragon: It's okay. I'd probably just rather have a Steel Hellkite.
- Polukranos, World Eater: The reason I'm picking away at all of these big stompy creatures is because EDH doesn't always have to do with creatures, and if you focus your deck on winning the creature fight too much, you might find yourself ill-prepared for the more common noncreature fights in EDH. Imagine if this was just a Scavenging Ooze. Ooze would give you better game against reanimator strategies, since even now you have pretty much nothing against that. Also, Ooze gets very give and gives you a good amount of lifegain. It cuts off your opponent's Eternal Witness and flashback effects.
- Soul of Zendikar: This just needs to be Woodland Bellower or Avenger of Zendikar honestly. Even Wort, the Raidmother would be more impressive.
- Thunderbreak Regent: Depending on how many dragons you cut, this might not be worth running. For the most part, in EDH, a creature needs to hit the board and either knock out a threat immediately (like with Woodfall Primus), or have amazing value (like with Consecrated Sphinx), or perhaps just be more impactful like with Craterhoof Behemoth. Thunderbreak doesn't really offer impact, don't offer card advantage, and isn't that scary in a 40 life game. Unfortunately, you have to assume that in the average game, the board is going to get wiped about every 3 turns. Wrath of God, Merciless Eviction, Supreme Verdict, Final Judgment, Terminus etc... sweepers are powerful and plentiful in EDH. Thunderbreak Regent isn't scaring anyone.
- Icy Blast: This should just be Frost Titan.
Some great choices you've made!
- Temur Ascendancy: This is one card that I can really get behind. Imagine it with Omnath, Locus of Rage. I would recommend also checking out Elemental Bond and Garruk's Packleader for similar effects.
- Warstorm Surge: This card is just fantastic and extremely useful/threatening. Great choice.
- Cultivate: This card is excellent, as well as its cousin reprint Kodama's Reach.
- Chord of Calling: A staple honestly. Good choice. I can also recommend Green Sun's Zenith, Genesis Wave, and Woodland Bellower.
- Acidic Slime: Very impactful, great when flickered in some way like with Conjurer's Closet or Deadeye Navigator.
- Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind: I personally like this card a lot, and would recommend Keen Sense for the combo wombo if you're into that kinda thing.
- Maelstrom Wanderer: This card is broken af.
- Eternal Witness: This is my personal favorite card. If you like it too, you might consider Greenwarden of Murasa or Regrowth.
- Yavimaya Elder: I like this one, though I usually prefer Wood Elves on account of it being easier to cast and actually ramps the land.
Cards you should try and get ahold of.
- Green Sun's Zenith
- Life from the Loam
- Woodfall Primus
- Deadeye Navigator (very overpowered, some people don't like using this)
- Cyclonic Rift (mildly overpowered)
- Sarkhan Unbroken
- Reclamation Sage
- Mina and Denn, Wildborn
- Omnath, Locus of Rage
- Tooth and Nail (super overpowered, some people are against using this)
- Drop of Honey (hard to find)
- Oracle of Mul Daya
- Greater Good
- Carpet of Flowers (for competitive pods with lots of blue meta)
- Pyroblast / Red Elemental Blast more for that blue meta
- Defense of the Heart
- Progenitor Mimic
- Birthing Pod
- Evolutionary Leap
Good luck with the deck!
1 year ago
i would suggest getting rid of Forgestoker Dragon for Balefire Dragon its a good boardwipe when you're able to give it doublestrike. Kaalia's Having a Party is my deck if you need ideas. also maybe Sorin Markov for reducing life totals from 40 to 10
1 year ago
- Archwing Dragon
- Balefire Dragon $
- Destructor Dragon
- Dragon Broodmother $$
- Dragon Mage
- Dragon Tempest
- Forgestoker Dragon
- Scourge of the Throne $
- Harbinger of the Hunt
- Furyborn Hellkite
- Hellkite Charger
- Hellkite Hatchling
- Hellkite Igniter
- Hoard-Smelter Dragon
- + + = No hand size, to keep the cards you draw
- Lightning Shrieker = is surprisingly good for common
- Mana-Charged Dragon = causes some insane politics in Commander
- Moltensteel Dragon = can win you a game if your tapped out and need to hit your opponent with less than half your health for lethal.
- Moonveil Dragon
- Predator Dragon
- Preyseizer Dragon $
- Scourge of Valkas
- Slumbering Dragon
- Steel Hellkite
- Stormbreath Dragon
- Thunderbreak Regent
- Thundermaw Hellkite $
- Crucible of the Spirit Dragon
- Dragonmaster Outcast
- Dragonspeaker Shaman $
- Haven of the Spirit Dragon
- Sarkhan's Triumph
- Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
- Quicksilver Amulet $
- Elvish Piper $
2 years ago
Ok, now for the dragon options. The key things to remember here:
Dragons are the theme and we're looking to use dragon options wherever possible, but it isn't a "tribal" deck. We aren't including random dragons just to meet a quota, and dragons are big enough and our combos lethal enough that we don't really care for tribal support effects. The synergy is in the individual effects of the cards and how we can abuse them with Scion, not the creature type.
As combos go, Scion is incredibly reliable. You will always be casting it when you have mana (since it's your commander), you can always use its ability (usually multiple times a turn at full mana) and you will always have access to the target you want (assuming it's not in your hand or yard already). What this means is our dragon toolbox doesn't need a lot of redundancy. If your best way to punish someone for not blocking a Scion attack is Moltensteel Dragon + Skithiryx, then you don't really need 4 more dragons whose purpose is "kill someone on hit", especially since we're running a bunch of recursion. Ideally every dragon we include should give you an optimal response to a specific situation.
Since these dragons all have different uses, I'll lay out the uses of the most obvious inclusions before listing some possible second-stringers.
If you want to kill someone who can't block Scion
This one's old hat after looking at other Scion lists, optimal single player kill combo. You Scion Skithiryx at any point before your attack hits (usually after they declare no blockers) then respond to yourself by Scioning Moltensteel. After that first ability resolves you play Moltensteel's firebreathing ability enough times to give you 10 power as Skithiryx, then you let the original Scion ability resolve, hitting for 10 poison counters. You can easily include a couple of other firebreathing dragons to use instead of Moltensteel in a pinch, but since you can pay life for this one it's easily the most reliable kill for a single player.
If you want to kill any number of players who can't block fliers
Another very straightforward one, although this requires you to have a non-Scion-tutorable combo piece in the Assault. You have to activate Scion targeting Ventmaw prior to attacking, but then you can let rip with as many combat phases as the Ventmaw can survive. One nice thing about this combo is that you generate +1 red or green mana with each combat, so in a pinch you can activate Scion again in response to some attempted disruption by an opponent - and if you have Wheel of Sun and Moon or similarly cheap recursion you can even Scion the Ventmaw again and continue your spree.
If you happen to draw Bitter Ordeal and feel like winning the game instantly
This is a harder combo to cast since you need to draw 2 specific pieces, but it's an infinite so it's worthwhile. In this case you need everybody's favourite Gravestorm card plus an "into-play" reanimation spell. You Scion Bladewing into your yard, then reanimate it onto the field. The legend rule kills one of your Bladewings (the real one) before its ability can even go on the stack, then its ability shows up and you target itself to get it back into play, repeat an arbitrary number of times. When you've convinced everyone you're playing with that yes, this is the way it works, resolve the Ordeal to win. Notably you can do the same thing by tutoring Worldgorger into your graveyard, but only if your reanimation spell is one of the rare/older permanent options ala Animate Dead. If you want a little bit of redundancy for this combo I'd look into those.
The best part about this guy is that there's several different cheap cards to go infinite with, and all you have to do is draw a single one with Scion on the board. The downside here is you probably only have enough cards in library to kill one, MAYBE 2 people, but with all your draws you can probably finish the others, especially if one of them is Psychic Spiral or Mnemonic Nexus.
If you need to see some more of your deck in a hurry
If you need to remove some number of random permanents
If you need to negate potential flying blockers
If your Scion is being targeted with removal
Pristine Skywise if you have any instants in hand.
Quicksilver Dragon is more specific in what it counters but can lead to blowouts.Hellkite Overlord (and Skithiryx if you're desperate) can regenerate.
Dragonlord Dromoka and Wardscale Dragon are interesting but don't stop card abilities and you have to have their effects in play before your opponent even tries to cast a spell (so the safest play is to Scion Dromoka during opponent's upkeep).
If your Scion is about to die
If you need your Scion to do more combat damage this turn
Vaevictis Asmadi, Moonveil Dragon, Steel Hellkite, Hellkite Overlord and Dragon Tyrant are playable firebreathing alternatives to Moltensteel Dragon.
Tarox Bladewing is an interesting option since if you have some way to get it back to hand after Scioning it (Gravepurge?) it becomes a no questions asked power doubler which can be stacked under transformations to more powerful dragons or even firebreathing activations for easy lethal which most people will not see coming. One to test, I think.
OTHER FRINGE PICKS
Teneb, the Harvester - any unblocked Scion attack is a chance to kill a player and you have to measure this effect against that, but at some points in the game reanimating a specific creature - from ANY graveyard - for 5 mana might be a bigger play.
Vorosh, the Hunter - Assuming there's a "soft" target struggling to block your Scion hits, a single activation off this guy can make it much easier to have reach the 1-hit-lethal threshold when attacking later on.
Sunscorch Regent - Odd sounding ability but it could potentially fuck with a lot of combo decks and if you're running some fling-style effects (which also synergize powerfully with Nicol Bolas) could potentially steal a win even after they start going off.
Dragon Tyrant - Your best backup combat-wincon outside of Infect, double strike and firebreathing makes hitting for 21+ easily achievable.
Dromar, the Banisher - You can do targeted board wipes, but you might banish your own commander to hand and it's clunky to do.
Hypersonic Dragon - gives every sorcery in your deck "You may pay an additional (2) to cast this at instant speed" but how good that is depends on what sorceries you run.
2 years ago
I'd definitely add some good control stuff to protect yourself and keep your opponents in check for the first six turns or so - since you're playing blue and white, this won't be a problem.
Day of Judgment and any mass removal you like should be in here, as has been said. It's great to have a reset button if your opponents have you under their heel.
Detention Sphere is excellent against ridiculously huge token armies if that's something you worry about.
Ghostly Prison, Propaganda, Windborn Muse, that sort of thing are really worth the slots in a deck that needs to stall for a few turns, and they'll keep most people going after other players all game unless you're rocking everybody.
The list goes on for control, just find stuff you like and put it in. You want more all-encompassing stuff than Ghostly Touch or Debter's Pulpit. Sleep, for example, can spell instant/ imminent doom for that player when you have enough dragons out.
As far as dragons go, I love them, and you have some good ones in here - but I think you need to drop some of the smaller ones and go for big, nasty dragons that make people nervous and end them quickly.
Pristine Skywise has the stats you want, and can also survive any red sweepers you put down (Blasphemous Act, Chain Reaction, Starstorm, stuff like that should be in here as well as any white wrath effects you enjoy). I think that alone should make it a shoe-in in a dragon deck of these colors.
Forgestoker Dragon can make sure your commander lands a hit, and Thundermaw Hellkite lets your entire team of fliers punch through. Scourge of Kher Ridges can clean up enemy ground forces. Sunscorch Regent can get huge in multiplayer and get some some life cushioning to boot. Dragonlord Ojutai is good utility. The list goes on - you just need stuff that makes more of an impact on the board imo. Go bigger!
PS: Insurrection often wins you the game in one turn late game, even if you have no dragons out at all.