Creature — Human Artificer
When Daring Archaeologist enters the battlefield, you may return target artifact card from your graveyard to your hand.
Whenever you cast a historic spell, put a +1/+1 counter on Daring Archaeologist. (Artifacts, legendaries, and Sagas are historic.)
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|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Daring Archaeologist Discussion
1 month ago
2 months ago
Tzefick: I read through the original post, but I want to circle back to it later. And you will have to excuse the order in general, I was responding to this across the course of a day.
On artifact removal
There are a few points to unpack here. The first, and most importantly, is that removal is a big part of Magic, the Gathering and honestly, is what makes games (and deckbuilding) interesting. IF MtG was just about amassing board states and then slamming big creatures into other big creatures, the game would be much more boring (not to mention take much longer). But your argument here basically boils down to "artifacts are bad because they die to removal". I get that there are a bunch of good artifact removal cards, but that doesn't mean that we should stop leaning into artifacts because of it.
As for dealing with removal (especially mass removal) - there are still many options that white already has access to which does actually allow them to ramp. Wayfarer's Bauble , Burnished Hart , Solemn Simulacrum , Kor Cartographer , Knight of the White Orchid are all perfectly valid land ramp cards. Sure, the average CMC of these spells is higher than their green counterparts, however green is THE ramp colour, so it would be expecteded that there would be hihger costs/more contitions to be met for other colours to do a similar thing. And that's without even touching on cards like Sword of the Animist or Explorer's Scope which are both equipment and what white excels at.
In addition to this, while not ramping, white already has access to cards like Weathered Wayfarer , Land Tax , and Tithe which allow you to consistently hit your lands. While not as good as outright ramping, if you're hitting your lands each turn, you're genereally not doing too badly. And when combined with other ramp effects, by mid to late game you still end up with as much mana as most players.
Now onto the artifacts. Yes, there are a lot of good artifact removal effects which can slow players down. But I would also point out a few things here too.
Mana dorks are a very common form of ramp in commander. Most green decks will run a bunch of them and there are even strategies (elf ball) which almost solely relies on them. But just as artifacts can be hated on, white has some of THE best creature removal in the game. This includes both single target but also mass removal, which can severely hamper your opponents with regards to ramp. And unlike green (who is the main comparison point here), white doesn't rely on mana dorks, leaving you relatively unaffected from a mana standpoint.
In addition to this, white has a lot of ways of protecting your stuff from being destroyed, whether it's indestructible, hexproof, just an outright Teferi's Protection (which yes you did mention), or more importantly shutting down an opponent's removal source using Torpor Orb effects, of which white has many. Sure, this doesn't stop everything, but it can shut down a lot of (especially green) big bad ones. We are seeing a lot of these printed in new sets, to the point where WotC are really trying to drive home the point that "this is what white does".
Ok, now circling back (And I will do this more than once) and picking up on my previous paragraph. On the topic of land ramp - white is very good at shutting down this. between all of the MLD, Balance type effects and library shutdown effects like Aven Mindcensor , white hating on green's land ramp is to green hating on artifacts (i.e. white's main ramp source). Again I reiterate, this is what white does. It has been made abundantly clear, since we have time and time again seen printing of cards that equalise the board, to take away other players' advantages. So again I push the point that white is capable, however the issue here is that it's not the way you (or some other casule commander players) want it to be. But again, that's not white's shortfall.
On Graveyard Recursion
This topic follows on from the whole artifact removal thing. Yes, white is very strong in graveyard recursion. And just to touch on one of your points, even recently white got a bunch of graveyard recursion via cards like Daring Archaeologist and Restoration Specialist . Not repeatable sure, but still decent. And let's face it, any mono-white commander product is going to see Sun Titan reprinted. But back to the whole recusrion thing in general - while white is good at recursion, it's permanent based, not specifically land based. Yes, this overlaps (especially in the case of Sun Titan ) but here it's just a bit of nice value.
Land recursion is very much a green thing (I'm not even going to list the cards) and that makes sense. But for white, the recursion is generally symmetric if en masse. And again, this makes sense. White is good at wrecking stuff, so it's also good at bringing stuff back. But the point is that just because you wreck stuff and bring it back symmetrically doesn't mean that you can't exile a graveyard or two in the middle. Ok, but what's my concern with what you're recommending (both across the board but let's talk specifics)?
So, fundamentally I have no issues with the release of white cards which can return permanents from the graveyard to the battlefield, and fundamentally I have no issues with pairing these cards with any kind of fetchlands to ramp. As you mentioned, we have the new Sevinne's Reclamation and Brought Back alongside Sun Titan and Profound Journey .
Where I have issue in this case is not with the concept of having a cheaper spell that hits smaller stuff, but in this case your suggestion. Unforntunately, ther is a fine line between being able to be used early game for ramp purposes and just being broken. The card you proposed is similar in effect to Unearth , though it being able to hit any permanent for 2 mana (yes, even CMC 2 or less) is super good. That means that in legacy it can hit cards like Young Pyromancer , Snapcaster Mage (to get other spells even at sorcery, like itself for example), Thalia, Guardian of Thraben , Wasteland , etc. as well as potentially getting another permanent too. It just seems way too powerful. Sure, we could start tweaking the mana costs/effects but I think you would end up with effectively a functional reprint of Sevinne's Reclamation . And look, if that's what you're going for then that's fine. But that's the danger with working under the guise of returning permanents while focusing on lands.
As for the land sepcific recursion effect though, this just seems out of charater (and heavily moving into green's territory). Just because one card was printed, which again did a symmetric effect (almost seems good with Armageddon + Tormod's Crypt ...) does not mean that it's a shoo-in for more cards to be printed like that. Planar Birth was printed inthe same set as Catastrophe and it seems like those cards were designed to play well with each other. As for hitting land drops each turn, I have no issues with this (hell, I even mentioend it before) and to aid in the available "non-good fetch" fetches, you have Terramorphic Expanse , Evolving Wilds , Myriad Landscape , Grasslands , Flood Plain , Bant Panorama , Esper Panorama , Naya Panorama , Warped Landscape , Terminal Moraine and Thawing Glaciers . That's a pretty good collection of budget fetch effects that already exist. And between Scaretiller , Sun Titan , Sevinne's Reclamation and Crucible of Worlds (and in conjuction with other ramp) there are already options there.
Again, I will double down on my argument that if you look, these cards already exist and can be made to work together in a deck. Yes, Crucible of Worlds has ~$25 USD price tag (at the time of writing this) however that is not too exorbitant for a strong EDH card.
On Other Colours
I get that each colour has its strengths and weaknesses and that when you put all of them alongside each other there will always be a worst colour. But I don't think that's a bad thing. White is an incredibly powerful colour outside of commander, and as a second colour, white is still super good. But mono-white has to have a weakness. In this case, it's slow. Buat again, that's done for a reason - because white represents balance. White might be slow, but it will do a really good job of slowing you down with it. And again, I get that ther will be a group of players who don't want to play all of the stax cards for fear of getting other poeple's backs up. But what about the players who don't care about that? you've now just armed a bunch of people with ramp and draw with their existing supply of stax. Think of how much worse that will be.
Now onto red (since you touched on it) - yes, WotC have come up with a nice balance for red's card advantage (in that it matches red's ramp style) - momentary bursts of value. Rituals and exile - you use it or you lose it kind of effects, which makes sense (and which you pointed out). But it's all done within the bounds of the colour pie still. But everything about white screams that it's card advantage is making sure your opponents don't have cards.
While I believe that commander should be avaialble to anyone, there are some cold, hard facts: Some people can spend more than others, and, not everybody within a playgroup has the same budget.
The cards I listed before were budgetless and in most cases, the best of the best. And I understand that only a small portion of commander players actually own said cards. But there are always alternative cards at all budgets, they just may not be as desirable. But that's where my double standard comment came in, which is "if you want to play a colour that doens't have good ramp, but still want the best ramp then either pay the money to buy the good (read "expensive") stuff or deal with the fact that you can't/won't buy it." I don't think that's an unfair statement, and it's a slippery slope once you start pandering to it.
But again, if ther is a budget discrepency within a playgroup then I also don't think that it is WotC's responsiblity to fix it. This is something that the players have to own and is an entire discussion point in an of itself, so I will leave that there. But I think most players would agree with me on this.
On Other Players
Here's where we get to brass tacks (if we haven't already), I wouldn't agree with you on the comment that "a large portion of the commander community" thinks that mono-white needs fixing. Ther eare some poeple, sure. And those people might make a lot of noise about it, but that doesn't mean it's the majority of players. I know that most players who I interact with would agree wiht my viewpoint on it.
And don't get me wrong, I play both casual and competitive lists, I work full time and have funds available to afford nicer cards. A casual list for me sits in the $400-500 range. But before you discount my opinion becasue fo that, hear me out. I have looked at many, many, many lists on tapped out, ranging from <$100 to >$5000 and have learnt a lot over the years. Typically the things I notice is that the kinds of poeple who complain about a lack of XYZ have also employed a lot of bad deck-building practices (no, I'm not implying this on your lists). Really heavy mana curves, little ramp to begin with, high CMC ramp, lack of focused win conditions, all that good stuff. And I'm not saying that the decks are completely unplayable, but a lot of them are really clunky and slow. And I won't begrudge people for building those decks. But if your average CMC is 4.5 and then you're complaining that your deck is slow, that's becasue of the card choices you made. However bad deckbuilding is not WotC's fault.
So compared to those poeple, I will be a bit arrogant and say I undstand balance better than them, yes. But, and more importantly, so does WotC - because they seem to be printing more stax cards for white as sets come out, but not more ramp and card advantage which would fix the non-problem.
8 months ago
King_Kaliban No problem! Another suggestion I just thought of while looking through your list again since you want to keep your creature count low. It looks like you want some artifact recursion since you are playing Daring Archaeologist and Trusty Packbeast . Instead of running both I think you may be better off running Trading Post as an ultimate utility card since it can do it all and it will open open up another card slot. With the open card slot you could then try Coalhauler Swine since I think that fits the theme of your deck really well. And I would personally take out Bounty Hunter for Vandalblast or Disenchant (or some other artifact/enchantment removal that has you gain life or deal damage). Another card that just came to mind to is red's best way of dealing with artifacts: Aura Barbs . It's unfortunate you can't gain life off of that with F&S but you'd sling some damage.
Obviously, all of that is my personal opinion, and I still think your deck is awesome regardless! Let me know what you think!
8 months ago
1 year ago
OK, lets do this then! We have to get through a lot:
1/ The strategy is artifacts - Our creatures will be artifacts, benefit from artifacts or create artifacts. Our non-artifact related spells will be counterspells and removal that protect the artifact plan.
2/ Standard rotation - standard is rotating in 2 weeks, kicking out Amonkhet and Kaladesh and ushering in Guilds of Ravnica. I will not include any cards from those sets, so only Ixalan, Dominaria and M19 cards will be used.
3/ The deck:
4 The Antiquities War - main win con!
3 Sai, Master Thopterist - makes a lot of tokens!
3 Sailor of Means - a token, plus a defensive creature!
4 Skyscanner - artifact and replaces itself!
3 Treasure Map Flip - is an artifact that smooths out draws and makes more tokens!
2 Mishra's Self-Replicator - a separate win condition that multiplies itself!
2 Daring Archaeologist - gives us back an artifact and gets big quick!
Add 23 lands with as many lands that produce both your colors as possible.
I think this can be a solid deck for playing with friends, with a good mix of interaction, threats and powerful win conditions.
1 year ago
Some suggestions: Remove card-Replace with: Kitesail- Basilisk Collar Grappling Hook- Accorder's Shield Konda's Banner- Manaforce Mace Banshee's Blade- Armory of Iroas Everflowing Chalice- Astral Cornucopia Magebane Armor- Slayer's Plate Puppet Strings- Echo Circlet Silver-Inlaid Dagger- Captain's Claws White Mana Battery- Ring of Thune Accorder Paladin- Brass Squire Auriok Bladewright- Danitha Capashen, Paragon Auriok Replica- Amrou Seekers/Etched Champion Blinding Souleater- Ironclad Slayer Goldnight Commander- Daring Archaeologist Vengeful Archon- Forebear's Blade/ Heirloom Blade Conqueror's Pledge- Sigarda's Aid
1 year ago
Your equipment is so vulnerable to boardwipe. ); This must be fixed.
First, a nod to Darksteel Forge.
Just lost 10 equipment to someone's wipe? Never fear, Open the Vaults is here! Return all your lost equipment and then use Balan's ability to equip them all. Roar of Reclamation does just artifacts (so you're not returning opponents' enchantments), but also costs one more mana.
Faith's Reward can help you recover from a boardwipe, but you have to have the mana ready for it on the turn it happens. It also has good offensive/defensive utility - you can swing/block all out at people to kill your creatures and theirs, and then bring all yours back.
Not a Cat, but Daring Archaeologist gives you a bit of retrieval and also gets bigger as you play more equipment spells.
Also not a Cat, but Nahiri, the Lithomancer has lots of equipment synergy.
Last non-Cat, Teshar, Ancestor’s Apostle lets you recur artifacts as you cast more! Not a bad way to repeat ramp like Wayfarer's Bauble or Traveler's Amulet, or just get back artifacts that got blow'd up.
1 year ago
Creatures I would recommend for this deck would include Sigarda, Host of Herons, Linvala, Keeper of Silence, Herald of War and a couple of value angels like Baneslayer Angel or Archangel of Tithes. Angel of Jubilation shuts down a lot of decks that are black or sacrifice intensive.
Instants and sorceries I would include if you want to consistently get Avacyn out include Worldly Tutor, Eladamri's Call, possibly Traverse the Ulvenwald, Green Sun's Zenith and any other similar creature tutors.
Removal in white is really good so things such as Swords to Plowshares and Path to Exile are staples in white for commander, if you plan to run Avacyn then some more board wipes would be a good idea (i.e. Hour of Revelation, Austere Command). Decree of Justice while ok is a bit costly in terms of mana. A strictly better card would be Entreat the Angels for the cost of 6 mana into decree you only get 1 angel, for the cost of 5 you get one angel with entreat, and for 6 with miracle you get 4 angels with entreat.
cards to take out include Blessed Light (simply better removal out there), Mirror Gallery (the lack of copy creature spells make this one obsolete in this deck), Untamed Kavu (not enough versatility or utility), Evra, Halcyon Witness (doesn't quite fit into this deck unless there is a combo I am unaware of), Divine Reckoning (better board wipes out there), Marwyn, the Nurturer (not enough elves to fully utilise the ability), Daring Archaeologist (you most likely won't be able to cast enough historic spells to make this guy big enough), Steel Leaf Champion (good beatstick, only problem is the extremely intensive green cost) and at least one land (preferably a land that just enters tapped and does nothing else).
some recommended staples for angel theme would be Grand Abolisher that way people cannot immediately counter or remove your spells, Urza's Incubator, Angels usually have very high mana costs so them costing 2 less is very beneficial. If you are unable to shut down the board entirely with Avacyn and Shalai, there is another solution but I warn you, people who run mono colour will hate it: Iona, Shield of Emeria. A card so obnoxious even I wonder why it hasn't been banned in EDH yet. it is basically night night for mono colour decks and if you can find a way to copy it (Cough Cough Helm of the Host Cough Cough) then your opponents had better pray they have colourless removal or run a colourless deck.
Also needs some card draw too, cards such as Howling Mine or Font of Mythos can help, if you're feeling nice. However if you want to be terrifyingly evil, then use something like Mind's Eye. some card draw spells I would recommend are Harmonize, Greater Good, Rishkar's Expertise and Abundance.
Overall this does seem like it could be potentially the meanest deck at any EDH table, any game featuring angels and/or Avacyn are bound to be very slow and oppressive, the one thing angels are famous for is being oppressive as hell (for reference look at Iona or Linvala). A good number of creatures for angel tribal is 26-29 creatures with about 3 of them being supporting creatures (case example being grand abolisher or eternal witness, maybe an Aven Mindcensor to be even more oppressive) of course the mana dorks can also help as well, in this deck I would say a good number is about 32 creatures with a maximum of 7 supporting units. I am curious as to how oppressive this deck can potentially get in a game. Good Luck finishing this. I can guarantee angel tribal is a very fun thing to do.