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Ceremonious Rejection Discussion
2 weeks ago
I think you are correct about Ceremonious Rejection. I'll start by cutting that, making the disdainful stroke swap, and I'll see where I end up.
Fascinating on surgical extraction. I've never played the card, but I would never expect it to be that good against dredge. They have so many cards I would expect to have to take (between their dredge cards, bloodghast, amalgam, conflagrate...) that I'm surprised it's that good. Rakdos Charm or nihil spellbomb makes them start over which buys me at least a turn or 2 to start churning out elementals or drop a tasigur. I'd expect that even if I extract stinkweed imp they can still go off with life from the loam.
The speed of Surgical is definitely notable. I need to reconsider it, but I also don't want to pick any up until it sees a reprint. And extirpate is almost certainly not a suitable substitute.
Regarding Tron, I've mainly only tested game 1 because I'm too lazy to sideboard when testing against myself. Regardless, I know from my time on delver that Ulamog is a total pain and I usually lose even after I counter it because of the exile cast trigger.
In game 1, if I play turn 2 Pyromancer or Tasigur or Angler, then I am favored to win, unless they Walking Ballista my pyromancer. So basically it's still a pretty bad matchup.
It's decks like Tron that make me wish I played white for Stony Silence.
When trying to keep them off tron they sometimes draw all the lands and crush you anyway. When trying to deal with the threats sometimes they just get a quick (turn 4 or 5) Ulamog and that's it, or they play Wurmcoil and O-stone in the same turn and I can't answer both. With either anti-tron plan the tron deck will still regularly draw hands that cannot be beaten.
Why Fulminator Mage over Molten Rain? Sure, you can K-command Fulminator back to your hand, but you can also Snapcaster-Molten Rain just as easily. In fact, even easier since we play 4 snap but only 3 command.
If you don't draw Surgical, is Fulminator strong enough? I've had plenty of games where I 'waste' a turn Field of Ruining a tron land only for them to get tron 1 turn later and it feels bad.
The sweepers are there to beat Dredge, Humans, Spirits, Hollow One, Affinity, Bridgevine, etc. There might be more subtle approaches to the matchups, but all of those decks are capable of simply pulling ahead with broken synergy. Without a sweeper they will simply overrun me. But with a sweeper even if they pull ahead I can get back into the game.
I agree that 5 is excessive. I added the 5th when I saw the new dredge decks which look like awful matchups. I don't think I can bring myself to play less than 3. While on Grixis Delver Anger of the Gods was the card that over-performed the most.
Do I have problems if I'm considering a white splash for Stony Silence and Rest in Peace in the sideboard? The sideboard would then be 1x Godless Shrine, 3x Stony, 3x Rip, 2 Countersquall, 2 Dispel, 1 Stroke, 3 Anger of the Gods. Seems bad, but Stony Silence is really good against Tron, among the other artifact decks. And RIP locks out graveyard decks hard.
1 month ago
Overall that looks a ton better! Over time, there are a few tweaks you can make to sharpen it up (such as replacing the Drowned Catacombs with more fetches or Darkslick Shores. I think the biggest adjustment I'd make still is in the sideboard. Ceremonious Rejection is probably just better than Steel Sabotage. Being restricted to just artifacts is far too narrow, and rejection hits Karn and Ugin along with any Spaghetti Monsters you could think of.
Jace's Phantasm is an eh card at best... It does its thing, but if they have 10 or more cards in yard you're probably comboing or close to it right? Even in mill, I don't think many lists want to run it since you're not trying to win of damage. Plus, Jace's Phantasm just dies to most removal and that's an issue also.
1 month ago
First of all if this is for modern I just realized, you'll have to replace Trench Gorger as it isn't modern legal. (It was only printed in a commander set, which is a 'supplemental product'. Cards that are only printed in supplemental products aren't modern legal).
Now, there's two roles any sideboard card can fill: Fighting the Meta, and Fighting your Bad Matchups. Bonus points if the card hits both of those categories.
For the Meta, you can run Damping Sphere or Ceremonious Rejection vs Tron. Sphere is also very good against Storm. You're good against blood moon so you don't need to worry about that. Mardu Pyromancer and Burn are both prevalent, so lifegain may be a smart idea. The best you have access to is likely Kitchen Finks. Lingering Souls, Snapcaster, Tarmogoyf, Kolaghan's Command, and all sorts of other high-power graveyard shenanigans are popular right now so you'll likely want some graveyard hate. Relic of Progenitus is the best option in your colors that comes to mind. Grafdigger's Cage doesn't stop the delve threats or goyf but it does have the advantage of stopping Collected Company and Chord of Calling, so you could consider that instead. Azorius control is huge right now - a couple Negates to hit their planeswalkers and fight back against their counters/removal can go a long way. Combo decks are not exactly prevalent but they are very powerful - Negate is good against most of them. Instant speed removal can be good at disrupting their combo too, of which your best options are probably Rapid Hybridization or Beast Within. Vapor Snag is an option too but it may not even stop the combo depending on what it is.
Now, for things you're weak against - Burn will kick your ass, and HARD. Kitchen Finks will be invaluable in that matchup. You could also consider Leyline of Sanctity, but those are pricy and you'd be relying 100% on them being in your opening hand. Affinity and Boggles are like burn's weird cousins, and both of them are weak to effects like Nature's Claim and Naturalize. Control decks are probably going to be hard for you since your plan is clearly telegraphed and easy to interact with. Negate is good like I mentioned, and you might even consider Heroic Intervention to avoid wraths blowing you out. Combo decks (Ad Nauseum, KCI, Amulet Titan, etc) are all going to be very hard for you since you have no way to stop them from going off. Negate is great here, and some of that instant speed removal I mentioned can help too. Naturalize effects can snipe combo pieces in a lot of decks, too. But above all, the thing I think you're going to struggle the most against is targeted discard spells. Inquisition of Kozilek, Thoughtsieze, Kitesail Freebooter, and other similar cards are played far and wide across the format, and they'll pick your deck to pieces. I really like what you've constructed here but a well placed discard spell or two can turn this rumbling tank of a deck into a pile of uncastable and useless cards. The only real 'good' answer a deck like yours can have to that is Leyline of Sanctity. Barring that, I suppose you could try Noxious Revival or Wildest Dreams type effects? They won't be very effective but it'll be better than nothing.
I know that's a lot to throw at you, but above all remember that the most important part of building a sideboard is knowing what your local environment is like. If there's 20 Tron players in your store, you'll want as many anti-Tron pieces as you can pack. Conversely, if there's no Tron players then you won't want to run any anti-tron pieces.
Whatever you decide to do, good luck and have fun! :)
1 month ago
dbpunk: Very true, the point of making the cards would be to make it more viable. Like a burn commander making Lightning Bolt target each opponent instead of a single one. (Wont let it copy when targeting creatures). Not essentially the entire standard/modern/legacy deck strategy, more like taking the theme of a given archetype and making it possible in commander (Adjusting cards to work in multiplayer). There are lots of people who loves burn, but it is very hard making it viable in a semi-powered meta.
You have some very good points, and no, Tarmogoyf and Goblin Guide will probably never see any real play in EDH as they are combat focused, but that is only good as it wont increase the price of the already expensive cards :)
It might be a way to ambitious project i have begun experimentning with, but i have some high hopes and like the creative aspect of it. Success or failure, either way i have fun :)
These themes are quite specific, looking for things more like: Burn, Control, Infect :)
2 months ago
I'd personally keep the ooze (the hate is good right now) and add trackers in place of Spreading Seas, while daredevil becomes a second huntsmaster, swapping remand out for something that more permanently deals with threats- possibly a Ceremonious Rejection given how key colourless cards are in everything I'm playing against, or even Seal of Primordium maindeck. Thats mainly a meta call though- and I'm not an experienced pilot of this archetype. A little higher creature count feels good for me.
The reason I'm looking at swapping spreading seas before anything else is that everyone is prepping for Field of Ruin, so land hate is likely to be less incedentally devastating.
It just feels like against humans and against vengevine its anger or bust, so packing a set of Sweltering Suns/anger might help the list tick over. Knuckleblade might be part of that strat right now- I'd lean into it with a 4 toughness / Anger of the Gods style one sided wipe plan, with counterspells picked to fight KCI/Storm/(possibly tron). Issue is, thats a radically different list, even if the counterspell support is similar. Its difficult to judge without spending a few fridays on it.
2 months ago
A few thoughts ...
- It's a meta call of course, but I generally prefer Ceremonious Rejection over Hurkyl's Recall ... partly because it's better vs. KCI but also because it has game vs. Tron and Eldrazi decks.
- With apologies to veeonix, I'm not a big fan of Metallic Mimic in Tribal decks. It's great in an opening hand, but gets progressively worse as the game goes on, so I think it's best as a four-of ... and that has always seemed to be more slots than I wanted to dedicate to the effect.
- I'm not sure, but looking at the Dispel, I'm wondering if Judge's Familiar might be better.
- I'm not sure on Opt vs. Anticipate, but whenever I'm trying to decide between cards like that I just run a split for a while and keep careful track of whenever I draw one but wish it was the other. And I think either would be better than Serum Visions here, just because it seems this deck wants to run at Instant speed as much as possible.
Also, Shapesharer may be too cute, but could be worth a look ... seems like it could enable some powerful shenanigans.
Good luck (and good skill) with the deck!
2 months ago
You have Glissa as your commander and no Executioner's Capsule. Is your meta just strait black? Because then I don't see the point of Contamination. You also have Reanimate, but with maybe one good target for it in The Gitrog Monster. Sheoldred, Whispering One? Herald of Anguish? Even Marionette Master would be Ok. You also run a few tutors for your combos, and that makes sense. But the draw you have around that is Bob, Gitrog, Ad Nauseam, Necropotence, Sylvan Library, Top, Scroll Rack, and Skullclamp. None of this is bad. In fact, most of it fantastic. But I want you to read Glissa, and tell why you don't also have recursion based draw. Solemn Simulacrum, Filigree Familiar, Moriok Replica, Ichor Wellspring, and to a lesser extent, cards like Treasure Keeper or Junk Diver. While we are on the topic of card draw, lets talk about Skullclamp. You have 12 creatures. 7 of them have 1 health, but if you ever put a Skullclamp on Bob and you aren't at 5 or less health, you should never play EDH again. The Lodestone Golem, Metalworker, and Scrap Trawler have the upside of being artifacts, which you have sacrifice outlets to. But only one. Ashnod's Altar? This one is also good with the creatures above with Glissa's recursion. You have only have 2 good targets for Skullclamp that are also artifacts. Why are you even running it?
The amount of artifact sacrificing, or even just artifacts dying, that this deck has is atrociously low. It looks like you took a couple of combos, shoved them in a stax deck, ditching all of the things that make Glissa Stax good (Glissa Stax isn't very good tho). Things like playing Winter Orb, sacrificing on the end step before your turn, tapping a Forbidden Orchard, killing the spirit, bringing back the orb, and doing it all again. This is a poorly constructed deck, with counter synergies, like the fact that 47 of your cards are 2 CMC or less and you run Trinisphere (which can be ok sometimes, but not in a deck that wants to play a KCI combo, because of Myr Retriever), lack of synergies, like the presence of Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth and the lack of Cabal Coffers, and just poor card choices, like Entomb + Reanimate with no game winning targets.
This deck VERY far from polished.
PS - I know that if you have the whole KCI combo, you could sac trinsphere, but this immediately turns on Ceremonious Rejection, Mindbreak Trap, Swan Song, etc. I would honestly just ditch the whole KCI combo idea, but keep all of the cards in, because they are still really good with Glissa, because you are right about Trinisphere being a deck breaking card.
2 months ago
The idea here is sweet and I think it has a lot of potential. But I don't like the dragons you're playing.
Thundermaw Hellkite is amazing. As is Stormbreath Dragon. They're not as good with Goryo's Vengeance, but they're much better to cast. I don't like Lathliss or Kolaghan. Glorybringer could be decent - reanimate with Goryo, swing for 4, and burn down a crearture is pretty good value.
For the sideboard, personally I'd start with 4 Anger of the Gods because it wrecks like half the meta. Deadeye Tracker is slow and underwhelming. Play Nihil Spellbomb instead (3 or 4 copies). Ceremonious Rejection and Countersquall are both very good. Also consider 2 copies Dispel. It's very good against burn and control.
I'm not a fan of Izzet Charm. It just doesn't do much. I'd rather see more targeted discard.