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Any number of target players each discards a number of cards equal to the highest converted mana cost among permanents you control.
Cabal Conditioning Discussion
1 month ago
Daedalus19876 Thank you very much for your feedback. The cards you mentioned from my maybes were pretty much the exact ones I've selected so that's very reassuring.
All the other suggestions are great, thank you. I was already swapping Luminarch Ascension for Bitterblossom so good to get your encouragement on that swap. I don't own Vampiric Tutor atm. My current budget substitute is Diabolic Intent which I could use for the same purpose. Any other card draw you could reccomend in place of Damnable Pact ? I just bought a copy of Tymna the Weaver so I guess I can swap in her for Pact. I think Altar's Reap is possibly weak too, but I do sorta like having a surprise instant speed sac effect.
I should have explained but I don't tend to run Toxic Deluge at the moment because there is one guy in our playgroup who always plays big mana big creature green based decks with commmanders including Arixmethes and xenagos. He also runs lots of cards that double creatures power and double +1+1 counters etc so the creatures often end up extremely big so Elenda, the Dusk Rose is often not the biggest creature and Toxic Deluge frustratingly is just not as good as usual against his decks as the amount of life you have to pay is sometimes huge and sometimes even unpayable. It's possible the card is still good enough tho and I should give it more of a try because maybe I've underestimated how I can gain that life back same turn or get to a life total where I can pay. I run Path to Exile over Swords to Plowshares for a similar reason but again I'm open to trying out Swords to Plowshares especially as this friend is moving this month so the meta is going to change.
This decklist is still in quite an experimental stage and The Elderspell is something I have been just trying, partly as an alt wincon with the new Liliana, Dreadhorde General . I agree that it seems loose and I should cut it for one of the ones you highly recommend like Reaper from the Abyss .
I have a copy of Bolas's Citadel and would never have thought of it for this deck so thanks so much for that idea. I'll def try it. I will add back Swiftfoot Boots too but I cut Lightning Greaves because it stops me targeting Elenda, the Dusk Rose with effects like Hatred and Shizo, Death's Storehouse . Do you def think Lightning Greaves is better given that drawback?
One new card I was extremely impressed with was God-Eternal Bontu I ended up 1v1 against my friend on a Ruric Thar deck and I was recurring Bontu and he was recurring Ilharg, the Raze-Boar and the card advantage from Bontu in a token deck won out.
4 months ago
Hi addk I am here again to talk about the discard section.
Let's count the cards that makes opponents discard multiple cards in a row: Mindslicer , Sadistic Hypnotist , Stronghold Rats , Dark Deal , Torment of Hailfire , Bottomless Pit , Mind Slash , Necrogen Mists , Oppression and Painful Quandary .
Hypnotic Specter and Liliana Vess discards one card per round, too slow.
We have 10 cards that sinergizes with your commander, but observe that if you need to shut down the others u only have Mindslicer (if u have a sac outlet, there are 5 on the list), Sadistic Hypnotist (if you have another creature to begin the chain), Torment of Hailfire (perfect) and Mind Slash (if you have mana open and a creature to begin the chain).
How about raise the perfect?
Death Cloud with the right amount of mana can make all opponents lose theirs hands and you put more elves that you lost, not counting the fact that wipes the board and a geddon effect. Cabal Conditioning starts the count in 5, which is Nath CMC, cleaning the hands of your opponents and with potential to put 15 elves in play.
5 months ago
Specters are pretty lackluster (except for Liliana's Specter with flicker shenanigans). I think it'd be better to go goodstuff with demons etc. For the discard you'll have spells that affect all opponents, like Syphon Mind, Unnerve, Tasigur's Cruelty, Mindslicer, Cabal Conditioning and Myojin of Night's Reach. Better than puny overcosted flyers that only affect one opponent each time. If you really want the specter effect you can just run Larceny.
6 months ago
Your discard suite seems pretty well set up but you might consider Cabal Conditioning as its pretty flexible and will probably make sure EVERY hand is empty after its cast. With the amount of discard you have going on it seems like you may as well invest in some reanimation to take advantage of the resources placed there with cards like Rise of the Dark Realms.
Consider Leyline of the Void for some extra salt to go with the discard. You are running Cabal Coffers so why not run Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth as it helps with lands like Maze of Ith and others to add to the swamp count. Also, try Expedition Map since you have good land targets like Cabal Coffers and Cabal Stronghold to aim for.
11 months ago
Couple of notes up front (might just be due to ongoing edits):
- You have 2 copies of Victory Chimes in the list
- You only have 96 cards in the list (including the duplicate above) instead of 100
Want to suggest a couple of deck strategies to consider focusing in on (they are all fairly synergistic but it might help to pick one to focus on to help the deck feel like it has a clearer win condition):
With your current list of mill-value and beats, the missing pieces only seem to be ways to close the game.
- Keening Stone to close out a player with mill
- Necrotic Ooze to take advantage of any opponents' powerful abilities
- Consuming Aberration and Lord of Extinction seem quite good
- Psychosis Crawler takes advantage of the multiple windfall effects you are running but otherwise isn't too synergistic
- Splinterfright is a cheaper Lhurgoyf with better keywording and a synergistic 'tax' that works in your favor. Terravore might be worth considering too.
Discard Group Slug
I think this is a really interesting avenue for Muldrotha: running cards like Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur, Waste Not, Oppression, Mindslicer and Myojin of Night's Reach to clear out your own and opponents' hands while benefiting from Muldrotha and other graveyard recursion effects to allow yourself to keep making plays. It would be a deck unlike any other at our table so far.
Other solid cards that support this archetype:
- Scythe Specter, Hypnotic Specter, Liliana's Specter
- Cabal Conditioning
- Words of Waste
- Necrogen Mists
- Bloodhusk Ritualist
- Bottomless Pit
- Sword of Feast and Famine (yeah, expensive though)
- Painful Quandary
- Archfiend of Ifnir
Graveyard Theft or Pure Recursion
This concept would run recursion spells like Boneyard Parley to steal the best things from opponents graveyards. In this case, Muldrotha allows us to consistently run targeted recursion from our graveyard, and we can focus our deck construction on the grave-robbing package. Because of Muldrotha's ability, we want to focus primarily on "theft on sticks" which we can repeatedly cast as needed, likely leaning heavily into Black.
Theft on Sticks examples
- Chainer, Dementia Master
- Dance of the Dead
- Scion of Darkness
- Chancellor of the Spires can both jump-start your mill value and borrow a winner from someone's yard. Sam has one.
1 year ago
As a brief forward, do take this advice with a grain of salt. It is purely my own musings on what is already a beautiful deck. That being said...
I think that Army of the Damned is honestly pretty weak. In terms of token generation, 13 is rather small, and even though they are 2/2s, 26 damage isn't killing anyone. While they could be used as chump blockers, you can honestly just use a bigger threat. I think that in terms of rivaling an actual token generation strategy Deploy to the Front is a better choice. You get chump blockers in a quantity that can compete with Assemble the Legion in late game or even Krenko, Mob Boss for a turn. Alternatively, Ezuri's Predation is a solid choice in dealing with token generators and in the right circumstances, counts as a one sided board wipe. Yeah, it forces you to attack things you might not want to, but it also forces your opponents to block with key pieces that are sure to die, I am thinking commanders and creatures with tap effects. Whichever way you go, Horncaller's Chant is a great follow up, and has value even if you dont have tokens, though admitedly not ton. If 40 Pegasi aren't enough to win a game, I am sure that 80 will be. In your deck, pairing any token generation with Divergent Transformations, is bound to be strong, and unpredictable in a fun way.
After you have ramped into more mana than you know what to do with, Spawning Grounds might be a way to go. It is slow, but it allows for full utility of unused lands.
Looking at your card draw, I find Myojin of Seeing Winds an odd choice. Its pretty answerable even with the indestructible keyword. Biomantic Mastery is more value and on the same turn it is played (and a sweet flavor win with Momir Vig). Any kind of card draw plus Cabal Conditioning gets the Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur effect without everybody gunning for you. When Jin-Gitaxias is played, everybody is given an opportunity to focus it down, but Cabal Conditioning limits their answers to instants and if not answered, sets you up for at least one full turn of unanswered plays.
The direct and continuous recursion of Debtors' Knell is probably better than All Suns' Dawn, even though you wont be getting cast triggers off of your Eldrazi, cheating your bigger things into play is usually better than getting them in hand
In this deck a card like Baneful Omen does a lot of work. Yeah it gives away a ton of information, but it is a nuisance that affects all opponents that thrives on your high cmc cards.
Also, Grozoth can only ever draw you a maximum of 6 cards, and while all of those have value, it always tutors for the same stuff, perhaps leading to stale gameplay.
Even if this hasn't been helpful, I hope it was at least a little bit thought provoking
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