Cabal Conditioning

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Legality

Format Legality
1v1 Commander Legal
Archenemy Legal
Canadian Highlander Legal
Casual Legal
Commander / EDH Legal
Commander: Rule 0 Legal
Custom Legal
Duel Commander Legal
Highlander Legal
Legacy Legal
Leviathan Legal
Limited Legal
Oathbreaker Legal
Planechase Legal
Premodern Legal
Quest Magic Legal
Vanguard Legal
Vintage Legal

Cabal Conditioning

Sorcery

Any number of target players each discards a number of cards equal to the highest converted mana cost among permanents you control.

king-saproling on Lord Xander Taxing your Deck

1 year ago

Looks good so far. Personally I would make these swaps:

Cormela, Glamour Thief -> Coalition Relic
Maestros Ascendancy -> Worn Powerstone
Tragic Slip -> Syr Konrad, the Grim
Aether Tunnel -> Rogue's Passage
Protective Bubble -> Shizo, Death's Storehouse
Thought Collapse -> Seize the Day
Mirror Box -> Sakashima of a Thousand Faces
Umbral Mantle -> Firemind Vessel
Jin-Gitaxias, Progress Tyrant -> The Haunt of Hightower
Megrim -> Spark Double
Liliana's Caress -> Waste Not
Aqeous Form -> Sleeper's Robe
Lier, Disciple of the Drowned -> Cabal Conditioning
Aetherspouts -> Hedron Archive
Go for the Throat -> Component Pouch
Turnabout -> Sakashima the Impostor
Terminate -> Generator Servant

DreadKhan on Reaper King

2 years ago

Brago, King Eternal is pretty funny if you've got a few Scarecrows out, and he synergizes really well with your ramp rocks. Maskwood Nexus is a nice card to consider, but you do run a lot of scarecrows already, and need it less. It does let you run weird cards like Haakon, Stromgald Scourge to recur your 'Crows, or Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow for value. Scarecrone should probably be considered.

I like sneaking in cards that use Reaper King's high MV as a pay off, some of these might be worth tossing in, like One with the Machine and Rush of Knowledge . The new Stinging Study is fine, but generally not better than the blue options, other than not needing The King out to use it. If you don't like your opponents, Cabal Conditioning usually wipes out everyone else's hand.

As a pseduo-board wipe, you might consider the recently reprinted Rite of Replication , which can clone Reaper King 5 times to blow up 25 permanents of your choosing, which should be pretty backbreaking (and funny), though all the clones die. I wish Sakashima of a Thousand Faces wasn't $35, but I guess Yarok does a decent impression. With Yarok out, that really would be a selective wipe, since you'd blow up 50 permanents.

Idoneity on Tinybones the card thief

3 years ago

Ah, I have piloted a mono-black discard deck for quite the number of years. I have Chainer, Dementia Master at the helm myself, as he is a rather powerful card when everyone's hands are empty, thus he reigns unanswered. Therefrom, a great amount of methods may be used to win.

Tinybones is less of a finisher itself, more so a value engine. As such, I would recommend possessing a lower curve to take advantage of the card draw and more potent finishers within the deck to hent for victory. Also, having card draw outside of the commander would grant a better backup plan. A discard deck's goal is to empty each opponent's hand and win by going unthreatened. If no players have cards to discard, Tinybones cannot provide draw.

The changes I would make are more instants so you kill things once they resolve as opposed to waiting a full turn, swifter discard in the early game to make your commander more effective, stronger finishers for the sake of ending the game betime, and just cutting some cards.

So, first, there are some things I would remove.

  1. Murderous Compulsion may go with the discard theme, but it's conditional removal at sorcery-speed.
  2. Bad Deal is ironically a bad deal, as it is six mana for two cards gone.
  3. Assassin's Strike is just egregious. A six-mana sorcery to kill one thing and they discard but one card. Begone.
  4. Unnerve is fine but not great. Being a one time effect at four mana, I dislike it, though Xantcha is a great character in the art.
  5. Haunting Hymn is six mana, which is far too late for discard effects to be effective. You want discard early, as it makes it far more difficult for decks to catch their footing.
  6. I have the same reason for Tasigur's Cruelty.
  7. Cabal Conditioning has an identical reason.
  8. I have a shortlist for this category, being creatures without long-game value; Burglar Rat, Liliana's Reaver, and Banshee of the Dread Choir have discard stapled to them, but don't do much else whilst lacking much in terms of evasion for Larceny.
  9. Scythe Specter is slow and other cards just do its job better, and Herald of Anguish is slow and lacks fodder for its second ability.
  10. Necrogen Spellbomb is just crap. Two mana for one card from a single player's hand is awful. Don't play this.
  11. Awaken the Erstwhile neglects the game plan of having more cards than your opponents whilst lacking the option of going back. I'd just add a stronger finisher.

Alright. With that out of the way, I may suggest other cards.

So, early game discard. Mind Rake and Delirium Skeins are each great, for they take card from every player in the first few turns of the game.

Let's add some better kill spells: Snuff Out, Victim of Night, Go for the Throat, Hero's Downfall, Drag to the Underworld, and Murderous Rider.

Wraths are a cruciality for slower strategies such as this, for aggressive strategies such as Alesha or Tymna. You should add any of Massacre Girl, Damnation, or Massacre Wurm.

Upon card draw, you have none outside of the Trinket Thief, Rankle, and Geth's Grimoire. I'd add any of Phyrexian Arena, Sign in Blood, Underworld Connections, and Dread Presence. Necropotence may seem as if it negates the strategy, but it is always worth it.

Lightning Greaves just seem great.

Dark Ritual and Cabal Ritual allow for turn one Pit or Mists, easily providing much value with your commander on turn two.

Expedition Map allows you to assemble your land combos with Cabal Coffers and Urborg. Always nice.

Nirkana Revenant is an option for the sake of late-game ramp, giving much for Torment of Hailfire.

Now, for the finishers I have many. Do note that these are meant to be played when people haven't any cards in hand, hence lacking answers for these once on the field. Sheoldred, the Whispering One grants value from each player's bin whiles eating at their board. Abhorrent Overlord offers a swarm of flyers to end the game. Grave Titan is much the same. Archfiend of Despair goes well with Tinybones's second ability. Though I am not too fond of it, Archfiend of Spite offers much. Geth, Lord of the Vault hents the opponent's graveyards to swarm the board. Kokusho, the Evening Star is a massive threat that harms upon death. Kothophed allows for a quite a bit of card draw. Lord of the Void is always fun. Lastly, Gray Merchant of Asphodel does so much every time it hits the field.

Of course, I'd add more ramp and reanimation. Mind Stone, Arcane Signet, Charcoal Diamond, and Lake of the Dead are great for ramp. Animate Dead, Reanimate, and Dread Return are fine ways to get stuff from anyone's yard, save for the Return.

That shall be all from me. Do enjoy your day!

KiddCabbage on Haunt of Hightower Mono Black Discard

4 years ago

king-saproling Some of those are great, and I haven't considered them. Especially Myojin of Night's Reach and Cabal Conditioning . My current problem is knowing what to pull out of the deck to make room - any suggestions?

tompadget on Elenda BW Tokens/Pox

4 years ago

Daedalus19876 Thank you very much for your feedback. The cards you mentioned from my maybes were pretty much the exact ones I've selected so that's very reassuring.

All the other suggestions are great, thank you. I was already swapping Luminarch Ascension for Bitterblossom so good to get your encouragement on that swap. I don't own Vampiric Tutor atm. My current budget substitute is Diabolic Intent which I could use for the same purpose. Any other card draw you could reccomend in place of Damnable Pact ? I just bought a copy of Tymna the Weaver so I guess I can swap in her for Pact. I think Altar's Reap is possibly weak too, but I do sorta like having a surprise instant speed sac effect.

I should have explained but I don't tend to run Toxic Deluge at the moment because there is one guy in our playgroup who always plays big mana big creature green based decks with commmanders including Arixmethes and xenagos. He also runs lots of cards that double creatures power and double +1+1 counters etc so the creatures often end up extremely big so Elenda, the Dusk Rose is often not the biggest creature and Toxic Deluge frustratingly is just not as good as usual against his decks as the amount of life you have to pay is sometimes huge and sometimes even unpayable. It's possible the card is still good enough tho and I should give it more of a try because maybe I've underestimated how I can gain that life back same turn or get to a life total where I can pay. I run Path to Exile over Swords to Plowshares for a similar reason but again I'm open to trying out Swords to Plowshares especially as this friend is moving this month so the meta is going to change.

This decklist is still in quite an experimental stage and The Elderspell is something I have been just trying, partly as an alt wincon with the new Liliana, Dreadhorde General . I agree that it seems loose and I should cut it for one of the ones you highly recommend like Reaper from the Abyss .

I have a copy of Bolas's Citadel and would never have thought of it for this deck so thanks so much for that idea. I'll def try it. I will add back Swiftfoot Boots too but I cut Lightning Greaves because it stops me targeting Elenda, the Dusk Rose with effects like Hatred and Shizo, Death's Storehouse . Do you def think Lightning Greaves is better given that drawback?

Do you think Cabal Conditioning could be worth trying as a late game finisher to tutor? Or does Sadistic Hypnotist fulfil that function well enough?

One new card I was extremely impressed with was God-Eternal Bontu I ended up 1v1 against my friend on a Ruric Thar deck and I was recurring Bontu and he was recurring Ilharg, the Raze-Boar and the card advantage from Bontu in a token deck won out.

Your deck was such a good staring point thank you. Certain synergies like Elspeth, Sun's Champion + Martyr's Cause are just so good!!

Patolea on

5 years ago

Hi addk I am here again to talk about the discard section.

Let's count the cards that makes opponents discard multiple cards in a row: Mindslicer , Sadistic Hypnotist , Stronghold Rats , Dark Deal , Torment of Hailfire , Bottomless Pit , Mind Slash , Necrogen Mists , Oppression and Painful Quandary .

Hypnotic Specter and Liliana Vess discards one card per round, too slow.

We have 10 cards that sinergizes with your commander, but observe that if you need to shut down the others u only have Mindslicer (if u have a sac outlet, there are 5 on the list), Sadistic Hypnotist (if you have another creature to begin the chain), Torment of Hailfire (perfect) and Mind Slash (if you have mana open and a creature to begin the chain).

How about raise the perfect?

Death Cloud with the right amount of mana can make all opponents lose theirs hands and you put more elves that you lost, not counting the fact that wipes the board and a geddon effect. Cabal Conditioning starts the count in 5, which is Nath CMC, cleaning the hands of your opponents and with potential to put 15 elves in play.

Unnerve and Syphon Mind are cards used in many lists, 6 tokens or 3 tokens and 3 cards aren't a bad idea

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