Creature — Kithkin
Amrou Kithkin can't be blocked by creatures with power 3 or greater.
Printings View all
|Masters Edition III (ME3)||Common|
|Fourth Edition (4ED)||Common|
|4th Edition Foreign Black Border (4EDFBB)||Common|
Combos Browse all
|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Amrou Kithkin Discussion
6 months ago
Getting back to responding to comments here;
- "This is design space that evergreen keywords are actually trying to avoid. There are only a few rares and mythics that have the "list of keywords" ability. Not only is to complicating the intentionally simplistic evergreen keywords, it is also design space that had to be there at the start and cannot be reimplemented into game at any point. The list of words is not really available on the card, and that list can change."
Yeah, there is an issue with trying to pull together a group of mechanics that wasn't designed from the get-go to be a group of mechanics.
"Your reminder text:
(A Skill is a static keyword ability that applies to creatures, such as Flying, First Strike, Double Strike, Deathtouch, Lifelink, Haste, Hexproof, Indestructible, Trample, Menace, Defender, Vigilance, Reach, Flash, Protection, Landwalk, Fear, Intimidate, Shroud, and any Skill introduced at a later time)
Is increblity hard to parse and essentially just puts the text on something like Cairn Wanderer in parenthesis, while also making it somehow even longer. And you cannot put "and any skill introduced at a later time" as part of the rules or even the reminder text, because it says nothing."
Well a reminder text is always going to be a bit extensively worded. And this is meant to gather the lot.
If we look at the reminder text for flying for instance; "This creature can't be blocked except by creatures with flying and/or reach."
You omit the wording that creatures with flying can block creatures with flying, by implying the text on the opponent's flier.
Double Strike however is a little less elegant if you're going to be really explicit; "This creature deals both first-strike and regular combat damage."
In the context of a new player, what is first-strike combat damage? You have a reminder text that refers to another set of rule text. If you had to put it all out you would need to write;
"This creature deals damage before creatures without first strike or double strike, in addition to regular combat damage."
Caerwen's comment on rules needing to be consistent makes it more likely that this type of mechanic will only ever get greenlit if you parse it as Skill = static keyword ability. There are very few static keyword abilities that are not evergreeen that actually does something on the board, it's mostly evasive abilities such as Shadow, Horsemanship and stuff that happens while entering the battlefield like Amplify.
- "Lets take a close look at Rayami. First of the Fallen . He lists specific abilities, because those are the keyword abilities the Sultai colors have access to:"
Well except first strike is only a tertiary ability for black and double strike being non existent in the strict Sultai color composition. Haste is also only a tertiary ability for black. So Rayami doesn't really adhere to what the color combination is strongest in and borrows abilities the color combination is not particularly good at.
- "Odric, Lunarch Marshal intentionally list skulk, a blue-black abilility to both reference the set he is from and for flavor. So, while those abilities are listed in huge block of text, this is rarely used on a handful of cards."
From what I've read, Skulk initially started out differently as an experiment in Shadowmoor that WotC wasn't happy about, mainly due to the issues around Protection. There have been many variations of this type of mechanic even as old as Amrou Kithkin , Fleet-Footed Monk but back then it wasn't meant as a staple mechanic but as a simple ability. We have seen similar with Daxos of Meletis . Mistmeadow Skulk was the first experiment on creating that mechanic but was scrapped. Daxos may have been the second. Then it was revised to a dynamic evasive mechanic that was reintroduced and keyworded as Skulk in Shadows over Innistrad and aligned under Blue-Black.
While I agree that Ordric in principle shouldn't have Skulk, it may be a nod to both the mechanic from his plane and the initial experiment for the new evasive mechanic.
There are many abilities on Ordric that a strictly white creature shouldn't normally have; Deathtouch, Haste, Menace, Reach, Trample. Neither of them are white's abilities. Trample are featured on a few old cards and very few Keyword hoarders like Akroma and Ol' Winged-Dino as are Reach but they are not White's abilities.
- "Finally, the large block of text is actually extremely appealing to any Timmy, so getting rid of it can disappoint pdemographics of players."
Fair point. I guess I would agree.
- It seems a bit silly to use "this has never been done before" on a thread where you're proposing "let's do something that has never been done before."
What I meant by your point falling flat was because you proposed to replace one choice of term (skill) with another term (keyword ability). Neither have been used before in oracle text and both would be equally new as a term in oracle text. Therefore it seemed silly to me to propose one would be better than the other. So while you indeed could replace Skill with Keyword Ability, I don't see the point you're trying to make, as Keyword Ability is not a term used outside the comprehensive rules.
As a final underline, I think your point on arbitrary distinction hits home. If Skills would ever have a chance to become a term it would be under a broader distinction:
Skill (Static Keyword Ability)
However then presents the next issue; while keyword abilities are neatly classified and Static Abilities being defined under the rules, I think it would still be a mouthful to cement that distinction in the players' minds. The players know what a keyword ability is when presented with one. However classifying them as Static or not is likely a bit too much.
So while it could basically be done, I doubt it will sound appealing enough to implement.
It was fun toying with the idea of grouping Evergreens under one banner and utilize it as design space, but points have been made that this ground work needed to have been done way in advance to make it function.
2 years ago
I have a few recommendations for this deck. Firstly, Cenn's Heir, Kinsbaile Borderguard, and Ballyrush Banneret seem like auto includes for Kithkin tribal. Cenn's Enlistment is a little mana intensive, but it gives you bodies of a relevant type, and can be recurred in the late game and turn dead land draws into bodies. Surge of Thoughtweft could be played strictly for flavor if that's something you're interested in.
Additionally, I feel like you don't need as many filler Kithkin like Amrou Kithkin and Kinscaer Harpoonist and could use more tribal staples like Kindred Discovery and Herald’s Horn , as well as a better control package of cards like Beast Within and Pongify.
This looks like a good start and I'm really interested to see where you take it, as I can see it heading towards either an Agro or Control strategy.
3 years ago
I like the Amrou Seekers. I'll have to see how TL plays out more with my playgroup to see if Amrou Kithkin would be a good play. Goldmeadow Lookout is 4CMC, the card art just makes it hard to read and it looks like 3.
New Benalia is a great suggestion. Thank you for the feedback!
3 years ago
I'm also a big fan of New Benalia in any mono-white deck.
3 years ago
Suggestion the first: Get down to 60 cards. A pretty universal rule; you want the minimum card count possible because it improves your consistency.
Mistmeadow Skulk is bad. So is Amrou Kithkin. Tiny evasive beaters with terrible power/toughness for CMC is not a worthy use of a slot, even if you get a buff or 2 out. Monowhite weenie decks win with aggressive strategies, and they are VERY not aggressive. I am dubious of Patrol Signaler for much the same reasons.
Goldmeadow Lookout, no, you are mono-white, you don't have spare cards to discard, and it's so slow.
Kithkin Zephyrnaut is a good card maybe half the time, and it's a terribad 2/2 for 3 the other half of the time. Use cards that are good most of the time.
I have a kithkin deck. Brigid seems decent on paper but has generally proven disappointing. Here is my deck for reference. Kithkin Militia
4x Kithkin Rabble is excessive, as 4 CMC is a lot and its basically just a strictly worse Kinsbaile Borderguard 90% of the time for you(only permanent that doesn't proportionally pump it is Honor of the Pure). I'd say cut it, or at least go down to 2x at most.
Kithkin harbinger has a truly awful body, and the effect is not very impressive, considering that you will be drawing plenty of kithkin regardless, and drawing one kithkin in particular is usually not critical, at least not so critical that it's worth playing a card for 3 mana with 1 power.
With a CMC close to 2, once you're getting close to a 60 card deck, 22-23 lands should be fine.
Thanks for reminding me that Figure of Destiny exists, I should add it to my deck.
God bless your tiny hobbit deck and remember to go fast.
4 years ago
Kithkin tribal, nice! I wanted to do this sorta deck myself :)
I have a nostalgic soft spot for Amrou Kithkin - might go well in here though to have a passively huge unblockable essentially.