mafteechr's classroom: Knowledge Pool
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mafteechr
21 February 2011
10895 views
21 February 2011
10895 views
Hello Tapped Out! Welcome to mafteechr's classroom, where we'll go over some common Q&As!
Thank you WOTC for creating a card destined to confuse everyone who is not a Jedi. I'm going to try and tackle a few different questions.
Question: How does Knowledge Pool work?
Answer: Ah, the easy one. So, if Knowledge Pool is cast and resolves, the imprint ability triggers and both players exile the top three cards of their library into the pool. Now, let's look at what happens when a player casts a spell:
1. The player cast the spell. It is now on the stack.
2. Knowledge Pool's ability triggers and is now placed on the stack above the spell.
3. Priority is passed twice and resolution begins.
4. Knowledge Pool's ability resolves and the original spell is exiled.
5. You may now cast any spell that has been exiled by Knowledge Pool, excluding the spell you cast that triggered this ability.
Not too bad. But what about some more complicated scenarios? A common misconception about Knowledge Pool leads to the question "what happens when Knowledge Pool is all used up?" Some people believe the only cards in the "pool" are the exiled cards from the imprint ability. However, the "pool" consists of all cards from imprinting and each card that is exiled by Knowledge Pool's second ability. Thus, the pool never runs out, since the exiled cards are constantly replaced.
Question: How do I counter a spell with Knowledge Pool out?
Answer: Now we're getting trickier. Let's first look at what would happen if you simply tried to counter a spell while Knowledge Pool is out.
1. Opponent casts a spell. It goes on the stack.
2. Knowledge Pool's second ability triggers and goes on the stack above it. Priority is passed.
3. You cast a counterspell. It is now on the stack above Knowledge Pool's triggered ability.
4. Knowledge Pool's second ability triggers again and goes on the stack above your counterspell. Priority is passed twice and resolution begins.
5. First, your counterspell is exiled by Knowledge Pool.
6. Now you may play any spell already exiled by Knowledge Pool, excluding the counterspell you just cast.
7a. If there is a counterspell in exile, you may cast it and target your opponent's original spell. It would resolve and the original Knowledge Pool ability would counter on resolution (fizzle).
7b. If there is no counterspell already in exile, then you may cast any spell from exile. The original Knowledge Pool ability would resolve, exiling your opponent's original spell, and he would then be able to play any spell already in exile.
Basically, unless there is a counterspell already in exile, your counterspell is only going to get exiled. The same situation occurs if you attempt to counter the spell cast from exile after Knowledge Pool's ability resolves. However, there is a clever way to get around this.
Let's look at the scenario of trying to counter the spell cast by Knowledge Pool's ability.
1. Your opponent cast a spell. It goes on the stack.
2. Knowledge Pool triggers and goes on the stack above the spell. Priority is passed twice and resolution begins.
3. Knowledge Pool's ability resolves and the original spell is exiled.
4. Your opponent then cast a spell from exile.
5. In response, you play a spell.
6. Knowledge Pool triggers and the ability goes on the stack above your spell.
7. You cast a counterspell, targeting your opponent's spell (it doesn't matter right now since it won't resolve immediately).
8. Knowledge Pool triggers again and the ability is placed above your counterspell on the stack.
9. Priority is passed twice and resolution begins (deep breath).
10. Your counterspell is exiled. You may now cast any spell exiled by Knowledge Pool except your counterspell. The spell resolves.
11. Now, your original spell is exiled. You may now cast any spell exiled by Knowledge except your original spell. You choose to cast your exiled counterspell, targeting your opponent's spell on the stack.
12. The counterspell resolves, countering your opponent's spell.
And there you have it! The same "cast a spell then cast your counterspell" trick can be used for countering your opponent's original spell, and when/if it resolves, the Knowledge Pool ability triggered by your opponent's spell would be countered upon resolution.
Question: What happens if there are multiple Knowledge Pools out?
Answer: Now the real fun. Let's look at two cases.
Case 1: The same player controls multiple Knowledge Pools.
This case is a bit simpler. We'll conjure up the following rule to guide us.
603.3b If multiple abilities have triggered since the last time a player received priority, each player, in APNAP order, puts triggered abilities he or she controls on the stack in any order he or she chooses.
Let's say you control two Knowledge Pools and you cast a spell. You get to choose the order in which the triggered abilities goes on the stack, and thus, which resolves first. Basically, you get to choose which Knowledge Pool to pull your spell from. Let's check it out.
1. You cast a spell.
2. Knowledge Pool A and Knowledge Pool B trigger.
3. You choose to place Knowledge Pool B's ability on the stack first, then Knowledge Pool A's ability.
4. Priority is passed twice, and resolution begins.
5. Your original spell is exiled by Knowledge Pool A. You may now cast any spell exiled by Knowledge Pool A, except your original spell.
6. You cast the exiled spell, and it resolves.
7. As Knowledge Pool B attempts to resolve, it is countered since the original spell can not be exiled, as it already has been exiled.
Case 2: Multiple players control Knowledge Pools.
For the sake of simplicity, let's keep this to a two player game to start. We'll run through a scenario, then come to a conclusion from it.
1. You cast a spell.
2. Your Knowledge Pool and your opponent's Knowledge pool both trigger.
3. Following APNAP order, your Knowledge Pool's triggered ability goes on the stack first, then your opponent's Knowledge Pool's triggered ability goes on the stack.
4. Priority is passed twice, and resolution begins.
5. Your original spell is exiled by your opponent's Knowledge Pool, and you can cast any spell that has been exiled by your opponent's Knowledge Pool, except your original spell.
6. You cast the exiled spell, and it resolves.
7. As your Knowledge Pool's ability attempts to resolve, it is countered since your original has already been exiled.
To generalize, the active player will always be casting out of their opponent's Knowledge Pool. If we expand this to a multiplayer game, the active player will always be casting out of the farthest opponent to the left's Knowledge Pool (if everyone in a multiplayer game had a Knowledge Pool out, the active player would be casting out of the opponent to their right's Knowledge Pool).
Knowledge Pool is the most complicated card I have encountered in my short time playing Magic, but it is not impossible to understand. I can't wait to see some games played with it.
jojocorleone9413 says... #2
What if I cast an instant, but all other spell that had been exiled are non-instant such as Land, Creature, Equipment etc.
February 21, 2011 11:19 a.m.
You can cast any spell out of exile, be it an instant, sorcery, creature, enchantment, or artifact.
Note that lands are not spells. If a spell is exiled from Knowledge Pool 's imprint ability, it is simply exiled, since there is no way to cast it out of Knowledge Pool .
February 21, 2011 11:21 a.m.
Is there any cards you can not break the normal timing rules with, with an instant?
Like a creature that specifically says you can't play it on your opponent's turn?
How does knowledge pool handle that?
February 21, 2011 2:13 p.m.
Only timing restrictions based on card type are ignored when casting from Knowledge Pool . If the card's text specifically says something like you can't play it during your opponent's turn, then it must be obeyed.
February 21, 2011 2:33 p.m.
BlueWolf15 says... #6
how does something like Distortion Strike or something else with rebound work?
February 21, 2011 3:34 p.m.
Rebound and Knowledge Pool do not mesh. If you cast a spell with rebound from your hand, it is exiled before it resolves, rendering rebound useless. Then, if you cast a spell with rebound from Knowledge Pool , it is not cast from your hand and thus leaves rebound useless again.
February 21, 2011 3:44 p.m.
Resurrector_of_the_Soulslayer says... #8
Wow I think my brain popped.. Lol great article! Thank you for all the time you spent on this!
February 21, 2011 6:17 p.m.
Resurrector_of_the_Soulslayer says... #9
Wow I think my brain popped.. Lol great article! Thank you for all the time you spent on this!
February 21, 2011 6:17 p.m.
Resurrector_of_the_Soulslayer says... #10
Hmm srry on the double post not sure how that happened.
February 21, 2011 6:52 p.m.
What happens if you cast an Epic spell, e.g. Eternal Dominion ?
February 21, 2011 7:10 p.m.
Nothing of extraordinary proportions happens when you cast an epic spell. When you cast it, it is exiled by Knowledge Pool as normal. Whoever casts it out of KP will then not be able to cast any more spells once the epic spell resolves. It basically gives the other player complete access to Knowledge Pool .
702.47b A player cant cast spells once a spell with epic he or she controls resolves, but effects (such as the epic ability itself) can still put copies of spells onto the stack.
February 21, 2011 7:55 p.m.
cnielsen05 says... #13
This is very well put together. The explanations and rules citations are great and make a very complicated card simple to understand. Great job!
February 22, 2011 1:40 p.m.
You covered casting a spell when you have two Knowledge Pools, and when you each control one, but what about when your opponent controls two? I've been operating under the thought that the player who controls the Knowledge Pool triggers gets to put them on the stack in the order he chooses, making double Knowledge Pool very powerful because you can choose what spells you want your opponent to have access to.
I think your explanation on each player controlling a Knowledge Pool could use specifications about whose turn it is when the spell is cast, since that will change which Knowledge Pool you have to cast from.
I don't mean to sound mean or anything; I do appreciate what you've done. Just some thoughts from a rules nut and Knowledge Pool fan.
February 23, 2011 1:39 p.m.
I think I actually addressed what you mention.
Let's say you control two Knowledge Pools and you cast a spell. You get to choose the order in which the triggered abilities goes on the stack, and thus, which resolves first. Basically, you get to choose which Knowledge Pool to pull your spell from.
If your opponent casts a spell, then you get to choose the order in which they trigger and which pool he gets to cast a spell from. Also, if your opponent controls the pools, then they get to choose the order. I think it's pretty cut and dry to draw conclusions from that.
To generalize, the active player will always be casting out of their opponent's Knowledge Pool. If we expand this to a multiplayer game, the active player will always be casting out of the farthest opponent to the left's Knowledge Pool (if everyone in a multiplayer game had a Knowledge Pool out, the active player would be casting out of the opponent to their right's Knowledge Pool).
Again, I talk about the active player and where they will be casting relative to position.
February 23, 2011 2:18 p.m.
locustPLAGUE says... #16
What about Mizzium Transreliquat ? if you activate its first ability targeting Knowledge Pool during a player's upkeep, the first spell they play that turn would be exiled, if you repeated the same thing the next turn, they would not have access to the card(s) previously exiled by Mizzium Transreliquat , correct? I know it's not becoming a new object each time, but the recent info I've learned on linked abilities (which seems to be implemented mostly to keep things like Myr Welder and Mimic Vat from comboing, for whatever reason) leads me to believe that since it's regaining the ability each time, its no longer linked.
February 24, 2011 9:41 p.m.
TehPlutoKiss says... #17
Okay.
- You cast Knowledge Pool . It resolves.
- You cast a random spell. The spell is exiled, and you pull a AEther Tradewinds out of the pool, targeting an opponents' monster and the Knowledge pool.
- You cast Knowledge Pool again. It resolves.
Do the three exiled cards from each deck stay exiled, and if so, do they expand the new pool or do they just stay exiled?
March 1, 2011 9:46 a.m.
The original exiled cards are permanently exiled. As Knowledge Pool resolves the second time, the imprint ability triggers and three new cards from each player's library are exiled into the Knowledge Pool .
March 1, 2011 11:52 p.m.
TehPlutoKiss says... #19
Shame, it would have been really cool if you could expand the pool. Thanks!
March 1, 2011 11:56 p.m.
Regarding Mizzium Transreliquat :
If you were to copy Knowledge Pool a second time with the same Mizzium Transreliquat , it would actually be able to access the cards originally exiled with it. Since the permanent is not changing zones, it is the same exact object.
March 2, 2011 12:18 a.m.
Correction:
The original cards exiled would remain exiled, and any new copy of Knowledge Pool would not be able to access the cards previously exiled.
This is because Knowledge Pool 's first ability is linked to it's second ability, and the second ability is linked to both the first ability and itself.
March 2, 2011 9:45 a.m.
i would like clarification on how the stack resolves in a specific scenario:
I control a Knowledge Pool and a powered up Pyromancer Ascension
i cast Lightning Bolt and in response, cast Reverberate
been trying to figure it all out in my head but i start to get confused when i think about when the Pyromancer Ascension 's triggered ability resolves vs. the Knowledge Pool 's triggered ability specifically for Reverberate and what the legal targets would be for however many copies there are ... bleh, getting confused again
any help would be wonderful lol
March 3, 2011 3:45 a.m.
TehPlutoKiss says... #23
Uh... let me get a shot at this.
A primed Pyromancer Ascension and Knowledge Pool on the field.
- You cast Lightning Bolt , choose to have Knowledge Pool go on the stack, and then Pyromancer Ascension.
- You cast Reverberate , and again, choose to have Knowledge Pool go on the stack and then Pyromancer Ascension .
- Pyromancer Ascension copies Reverberate , and the original Reverberate gets exiled into Knowledge Pool , giving you the option to cast a spell from the current pool of cards. 3a. If the spell you cast out of the Knowledge Pool is an instant or sorcery, it is also copied by the Pyromancer Ascension . If not, the spell is simply played.
- The copy of Reverberate is cast. If you played an instant or sorcery from Knowledge Pool , Reverberate can target those spells as well as the original Lightning Bolt and itself. If not, the Reverberate can target the Lightning Bolt or itself.
- The Pyromancer Ascension would then copy the Lightning Bolt and the original spell would be removed to the Knowledge Pool , giving you the option to cast the Reverberate again. 5a. Assuming you choose the Reverberate , it comes into play, is copied by the Pyromancer Ascension , and has the copied Lightning Bolt or itself to copy. 5b. If you do not choose the Reverberate , normal Pyromancer Ascension rules apply, where it is copied if it is an instant or sorcery and it is not copied otherwise.
So, with one Pyromancer Ascension and one Knowledge Pool on the field and a Lightning Bolt cast just before a Reverberate , you end up with...
1 copy of Lightning Bolt as well as 3 copies of Reverberate , targeting Lightning Bolt
And, just for kicks, if you take a Lightning Bolt from the original Reverberate 's cast, you get an extra two Lightning Bolt s, giving you 6 of them!
I could be wrong, but I think that's it? 18 damage for 3 mana is not bad at all, and it's possible considering it's all red.
March 3, 2011 8:23 a.m.
TehPlutoKiss, that is incorrect. When I have time this evening, I will type it up.
March 6, 2011 4:20 p.m.
The error in TehPlutoKiss's explanation is that Pyromancer Ascension 's ability goes on the stack to begin, not the copy of the spell. The ability must resolve first for the copy to go on the stack.
Here we go.
1) You cast Lightning Bolt and it goes on the stack. Both Pyromancer Ascension and Knowledge Pool trigger and their abilities go on the stack. You choose the order.
Note: If you put Pyromancer Ascension 's ability on the stack then Knowledge Pool 's ability on top of it, the spell will be exiled before it can be copied, rendering Pyromancer Ascension 's ability useless. Thus, we will assume Knowledge Pool 's ability will be put on the stack before Pyromancer Ascension 's ability.
2) You then cast Reverberate targeting Lightning Bolt , as it is the only instant/sorcery on the stack. Both Pyromancer Ascension and Knowledge Pool trigger and their abilities go on the stack. Put them in the order discussed in the note above.
3) Assuming no other spells are played, Pyromancer Ascension 's ability resolves and Reverberate is copied. The only legal target is the original Lightning Bolt . The copy of Lightning Bolt created by the copied Reverberate resolves. 3 damage.
4) Knowledge Pool 's ability resolves and Reverberate is exiled. You then may cast any spell that has been exiled by Knowledge Pool , for the exception of the Reverberate . If it is an instant or sorcery, it will trigger Pyromancer Ascension . The copy (if created) will resolve, then the spell will resolve.
5) Pyromancer Ascension 's ability resolves and Lightning Bolt is copied. The copy resolves. 3 damage.
6) Knowledge Pool 's ability resolves and the original Lightning Bolt is exiled. You then may cast any spell that has been exiled by Knowledge Pool , for the exception of the Lightning Bolt . Note that if you now cast the exiled Reverberate , there is no legal target. If the spell you cast is an instant or a sorcery, then Pyromancer Ascension will trigger. The copy (if created) will resolves, then the spell will resolve.
Note: If the order of the triggered abilities in step 6 were reversed and Knowledge Pool 's ability resolved first, it would exile Lightning Bolt and the only thing left on the stack would Pyromancer Ascension 's triggered ability. Thus, if you tried to cast Reverberate from exile, it would have no target.
Conclusion: You do 6 damage from Lightning Bolt and Reverberate . However, you get to cast 2 other spells from exile, both of which get copied if they are instants or sorceries. So, if they were both Galvanic Blast , for instance, you would do 14 total damage (6 from Lightning Bolt and Reverberate plus 12 from two Galvanic Blast s and the two copies).
March 6, 2011 5:01 p.m.
so in order for this to be most effective u need to have a lightning bolt already in the pool ? that way reverberate has a legal target ?
March 6, 2011 10:25 p.m.
The most effective way would be to cast a spell in between Lightning Bolt and Reverberate , that way you could cast Reverberate from exile prior to Lightning Bolt being exiled. Red has a lot of 1cmc instants, so it shouldn't be difficult.
March 6, 2011 11:13 p.m.
Paradoxator says... #28
So the answer to this might be obvious to others but as I'm not used to playing with imprint that much I'll ask anyway. When a spell is cast out of Knowledge Pool is it used up completely or can a spell exiled with Knowledge Pool be cast multiple times? In other words, will the number of spells in the Knowledge Pool always remain the same or does the number grow as more spells are cast?
March 16, 2011 3:13 p.m.
@ Paradoxator
The number of "cards" stay the same in the knowledge pool unless there's something I can't think of off the top of my head that can change that.
I say cards because lands can be thrown in there from the initial imprint.
April 5, 2011 8:22 p.m.
creevallee says... #31
If i were to control a KP and a fully lvl'd echo mage, would i be able to tap and activate echo mage's 'copy target instant or sorcery spell' after KP goes on the stack so that i can copy it before KP exiles it? or would echo mage only be able to copy spells cast from knowledge pool? for example: The Stack-opponent casts stoneforge mysic,passes priority-i respond by casting mana leak-opponent has no response-i choose for KP to go on the stack-i activate echo mage to copy a spell on the stack(mana leak)-both players pass priority-the stack resolves,following FILO
thanks in advance
June 5, 2011 8:38 p.m.
Loved the article. I've had 3 Knowledge Pool sitting in my rare binder for awhile now and I haven't had any idea what to do with them. So, this was incredibly helpful. Something I was wondering however, is how the pool would work in conjunction with Curse of Exhaustion. Does the first spell the player cast that is exiled as part of knowledge pool's ability count as the one spell they may cast for the turn, thus not allowing them to cast any spells on any given turn? Or am I understanding this wrong?
April 18, 2012 10:39 a.m.
popeyroach says... #33
Knowledge Pool and Curse of Exhaustion work together to stop your opponents ever resolving another spell.
April 29, 2012 6:29 p.m.
Great article, but it should be clear that you can technically expand Knowledge Pool
as the second ability is a "may" ability. You can put your entire hand in and take nothing out. The only reason I could think for doing this is if you are running a group hug deck, which I do for EDH. Tons of fun.
Here is my question, what if you have a Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir and a Knowledge Pool on the board? Doesn't this make it so that your opponents would not be able to cast out of the pool because the second ability is on the stack, thus the stack is not empty?
mafteechr says... #1
Here is the deck I created around Knowledge Pool: Knowledge Ascension
More of my stuff is available @ http://mafteechrmagic.blogspot.com/
February 21, 2011 12:24 a.m.